14 May 2010 11 am eastern

Apple Responds

Apple responds to the Adobe "We love Apple" ad.

Via yfrog.com/83n4fp. See also:

Filed under: Adobe, Apple, Design, Flash, Formats, HTML5, The Essentials

109 Responses to “Apple Responds”

  1. Aaron Burrows said on

    That is absolutely awesome!

  2. Kenneth Kam said on

    We should have seen this coming. Adobe picked the wrong fight with the marketing heavyweight champion.

  3. gentax said on

    definitely awesome!!!

  4. ville said on

    Doesn’t make either of them any more likeable.

  5. Mike said on

    I love it! Apple points out their own product inferiority in their response.

  6. Chris McKee said on

    I agree more with adobe’s stance than the adobe crapolanch to be frank.
    Its like microsoft saying, nah we dont want Safari or Quicktime or iTunes on windows as its dodgy and has a habit of causing system errors.
    In fact the first safari-pc edition murdered windows, quicktimes had some gaping security holes and itunes was as buggy as sin.
    Apples very much the pot calling the kettle black.

  7. Jeff said on

    hahaha this is awesome.

  8. mike said on

    Flash has it’s place. like a lot of technologies before it (tables, servlets, etc) it’s filled a void of functionality that browsers are incapable of delivering with native technologies. with HTML5, we have that functionality now. (and with XHTML + JavaScript, we’ve had most of that functionality for years).

    Flash can (should) become a means of deploying rich(er) applications that require interaction and output not available in browser-based technologies. of course, given that there are people in 2010 still deploying websites using table layout, don’t expect Flash-based DOM replacement to go away soon.

    but we can dream, can’t we?

  9. antpaw said on

    i wonder if anybody here understands the difference between javascript (1995) with the dom (aka hell on earth) and the actionscript 3 (2008)

  10. Brandon said on

    Like Ville said, it doesn’t make either of these companies any more likable. Both of them need to grow up in a hurry and so do the legions of close minded “fans” on both sides of the argument.

    However I do appreciate that this response from Apple (if it is an actual Apple response) does show the short comings of their own product. That is hilarious. Morons.

  11. Mark Hope said on

    A very witty response. But Ville is right – it doesn’t make either of them more likable. I used to like Apple being the underdog and they’re now behaving like Microsoft would have to Apple a few years ago.

    I still think Flash has its place – it does do more than video, doesn’t it?

  12. room34 said on

    Hint: Do you really think this response is actually from Apple?

    I think it makes a good point though.

  13. Free Vector Graphics said on

    This is so sick, why do they have to “fight”? :)

  14. Craig Tommola said on

    Def not from apple. Wrong font, inconsistent kern. No glossy reflection.

  15. Brandon said on


    Based on your comment I’m assuming you’re not a Flash developer. Pretending that HTML5 or any combination of technologies comes even close to doing what Flash does is laughable. You might as well be comparing a Kia to a Porsche. Trying to compare the features is silly because they’re not even close. So instead compare the performance, you might be surprised to find that HTML5 (canvas) often times is far far more CPU hungry than Flash while at the same time doing a piss poor job of whatever it’s tasked with. HTML5 video stacks up about the same on performance as Flash video while offering a pathetic amount of features. I’m all for HTML5 and new technologies, but people need to stop pretending like these “new” technologies are even in the same league as Flash when it comes to features, performance, and engagement.

  16. Stork said on

    Adobe should make a flash website that mirrors the look/feel/function of the iPad OS. That’d show ‘em.

    OK I got nothing.

  17. sean said on

    I lost respect for you today zeldman.
    You should never pick a side because it makes you look like a fanboy!

  18. Hugo Matinho said on

    stupid fight … you hate flash uninstall it for christ’s sake … it’s a plugin remember ? there’s an uninstaller … now try and do that with javascript and the likes i wanna see how many of you will scream about having 500k canvas ads that share all the same references ( yes how will you name the stuff .. ids and the like in those i wonder how many html5 / javascript / canvas stuff will start to degrade) … how will you kill those Sherlocks ?

  19. Jason Friesen said on

    A+++++ would LOL again.

  20. Dave S. said on

    How is posting something funny picking a side?

    How are people seriously arguing this came from Apple?

    Why do religious arguments on the internet always bring out this sort of stone-faced life or death seriousness?

    It’s a joke. Laugh.

  21. ldexterldesign said on

    I don’t get it??? Someone state the obvious for me.

  22. kerry said on

    I’m with Dave, cept that i’d laugh harder if it was for real.

    It’s like Adobe is reading a what not to do book. Sad really.

  23. Jeffrey Zeldman said on

    sean: It’s a joke. And you can definitely read it two ways (i.e. you could read it as an anti-Apple ad).

  24. mike said on

    i thought it was funny, sorry to put a serious bent on the discussion.

  25. Adam said on

    Funny! Thanks for sharing.

  26. Blake said on

    Good pun!

    The original post was too short for posting so am adding some otherwise unnecessary verbiage.

  27. brizzle said on

    Nice! I love this joke… I read it as a snub to Adobe…and I’m OK with that! Thanks!

  28. Marcin Petruszka said on

    Best pun to the whole saga :) Couldn’t be briefer and more to the point!

  29. Dash Riprock said on

    Bwahaha… My first thought was that I had ClickToFlash turned on…

  30. Andrew Rawlinson said on

    Is every body even adobe forgetting that there’s
    the whole Internet out there that does support flash, even apple mac’s.

    Just because one product manufacturer dosent support it should not be such a big deal (the whole apple and jobs walled garden). It’s not like flash for mobiles has been around or stable for long.

    Adobe never made such a fuss with the fact older mobile phone or wapp Internet dident have some form of flash did they?

    I for one am happy my phone dosent crash due to some program not being stable.
    I had enought of that with a pc so got a MacBook, and occasionly get that with safari due to flash. I don’t want it on my mobile.

  31. Vanni said on

    a marketing genius at play. some hire that guy muy pronto!

  32. matt said on

    @ Brandon – (on flash performance trumping) uh dude? you do realize flash video eats CPU for breakfast since there are no hardware decoders for it, right? and that one of the alternatives, H.264, does have hardware decoding support, right?

  33. Daniel said on

    adobe´s ads are not about running flash player on iphone os,
    it´s about being restricted to deploy tools that can crosscompile actionscript code into native iphone apps. so please stop that flash player discussion. it´s a lot more than just get that thing running on steve´s os. and there are also others affected than just adobe. in fact anything that crosscompiles.
    from apple´s terms:
    Applications must be originally written in Objective-C, C, C++.

  34. Tape said on

    Apple would never use Arial for any reason.

  35. Thomas said on

    I love the joke… I do. And I’m even a little tickled at the volleys between Apple and Adobe.


    HTML5 isn’t even here yet. Everybody seems to be talking like when it arrives, the whole world will suddenly move to browsers that support it. When in the history of HTML or CSS (or any web dev platform/technology) has that EVER happened before?

    As a web development engineer, I’m scared out of my pants that all this means is I’ll have to add yet another level of “graceful degradation” to my web code. I guarantee that 5 years from now, my parents will still be browsing the web with IE6. And you know what, as self-serving as it may be, I still want that experience to look good so they can show off their son’s work to their friends.

  36. Jim said on

    Brilliant take-off. Apple started the fight but Adobe is on the defensive. Best way to fight back is to deploy a useable mobile variant of Flash. If Apple had waited for Flash 10.1, we’d still have no iPhone (and, by extension, no Android).

  37. Graham J said on

    ummm ya, I created and posted a very similar image yesterday on Facebook:


    Good idea ;)

  38. marco said on

    i agree zeldman it could be readed both ways apple & anti-apple… its awesome man

  39. ben said on

    Aw, crap. If the iPhone OS does kill Flash, I’ll miss Flash. But I won’t miss the Flash fanboys. Too many sore winners in your crowd.

    The reason I’m commenting is to point out what John Gruber posted yesterday, which offers the sort of position and insight one would expect.

    Anymore, if I want to bring my Mac to its knees, I don’t screw with Office; I run straight to CS. Generally, the only time the fan on my MB turns on is when I’m using Flash.

    …And the only time I need to use a mouse in CS/Windows is when manipulation of a brush or cursor is called for. On CS/Mac? Not so much. Crappy, boring post-production that I can’t shuffle into my Actions palette takes a hell of a lot longer on the MB than it does on my Windows machines.

    Fanboys, if you can catch your breath long enough, bear in mind that Adobe rested on its laurels. Now it’s paying for that vacation. Maybe Steve Jobs is being a first-class jerk, but at least he’s being a jerk in public where everybody can bear witness. Adobe’s been jerking their Mac users around for a while now, and their response when called on it is to make fake-nice all over the Internets.

    Next, they’ll be offering to sell me a bridge, I bet.

  40. Pablo said on


    Not fair to compare Flash to Kia. Kia has some qualities.

  41. ben said on

    As for the broader closed-vs-open-systems debate… history strongly suggests that somebody, somewhere, will build a cooler killer app. That app might not kill Apple’s market position single-handedly, but I’m confident that something will come together. In the meantime, I can live with Apple’s Apple-users-devs priorities. At least in Apple’s case, it’s obvious that users are on that list, which is more than I can say for a lot of companies.

  42. mike said on

    @Brandon nowhere did i say that HTML5 was a panacea that would displace Flash on the web. what i said was, for things that the browser can do with native technologies, we should do it with native technologies.

    as a web developer one of my biggest frustrations is hearing people say “we want an image slideshow on the homepage – we have to use Flash!” “we want the menus to slide out – we have to use Flash!”

    by all means, continue using Flash for things that web technologies are incapable of producing. but stop using it where it’s not necessary, and where it denies the user access to content.

  43. Bart H. said on

    Seriously, the fandom on either side of this has become distractingly annoying.

    It’s like saying “Hammers are better than screwdrivers, because they are more direct”, and the response is “NO! Hammers can’t be used to attach screws so they are inferior.”

  44. Stephen B. said on

    Wow, that was 100% spot-on.

    *yoinks the image and stashes it somewhere safe for a good laugh now and again*

  45. frank said on

    apple should atleast let the user of the iphone be able to disable and enable flash with a quick reboot and a setting.. giving us the choice .

  46. nice said on

    yeah this is great !!! Perfect Response !!!

  47. Adam Meyer said on

    I just shot Java Monster energy drink out my nose. I hope you’re happy Zeldman. I hope you’re happy.

  48. Dimwit said on

    Help, I cant see the picture in the upper right corner. (I just get a lego block)/sarcasm

  49. to frank said on

    Adobe doesn’t support iphone flash, but they still want to make software that makes it easy to build apps which apple stopped … if they don’t bring support to flash it will be abandon by all platforms, and probably already has seen its last days. It’s not that apple doesn’t support flash it’s that flash doesn’t work on many platforms. If Adobe wants to make money selling their apple products they should update their products being used by their free users, like us. That’s why apple has called them lazy.

  50. Justin said on

    That’s not arial. It’s myriad which is apples typeface it just isn’t in lowercase so it looks funny

  51. tz said on

    It isn’t a walled garden, it is a greenhouse in a prison complete with guard towers and barbed wire. “Jailbreaking” is appropriate. There may be a hacksaw in that HappyFlash Cake, so no matter how suite, we won’t let it in. Or you out.

    The saying “a pox on both their houses” comes to mind.

    That said, two years ago my Nokia n810 was doing flash. Real flash, videos but games and all the other stuff, not just an app to view youtube. Not great, but it worked. The one forcing Quicktime onto windows ought not to complain about CPU or security (I just bought a HD camera and apparently QT is worse at playing the video than flash ever was).

    And Flash was and is available for Linux. HTML5 is on firefox, but video won’t play from the sites which are claim to be using open HTML5 video. I can add Flash to firefox, but not whatever video they are using.

    Flash WAS horrible, but the 10.1 rc2 has been fast and rock-solid so far. Adobe seems to be getting its act together.

    We will see what happens – both are innovative companies, but I would give advantage to the one that ends up actually being more open, and the one that does the least sniping and most engineering.

  52. Justin said on

    That’s not arial. It’s myriad which is apples font , it just isn’t lowercase so it looks funny

  53. Justin said on

    Isn’t this myriad, apples font in uppercase.

  54. Alex said on

    i like this one better, http://yfrog.com/62gtlp

  55. Gwm said on

    Apple didn’t say never, they said not now. Also, the only argument for flash so far, menus, just wouldn’t work on mobiles as they almost always need to be triggered by hover. given the time someones parents need to migrate from ie6, flash enabled would cause almost all flashs in the web to fail.

  56. tylernol said on

    @Brandon … HTML5 video uses H.264, which is a STANDARD, that has many implementations in hw for decode and encoder. This is why I can watch 7+ hours of movies on my iPad — it has an h.264 decoder in the A4 chipset that offloads video decode. If I was running flash, it cannot run on the hw decoder, it must be decoded very inefficiently on the ARM CPU, wasting power and not performing as well.

  57. Dennis said on

    So proud to be an Apple alumni!! Love this!!!

  58. Cause said on

    @tylernol , First thing – HTML5 doesn’t define/specify codec of video referenced by tag. Second thing – flash do not must decode video on CPU. With some good will from apple, adobe could use embedded hw decoder to handle video decoding.

  59. Nick said on

    Fanboys are so annoying.

    Adobe is sending out a great message: that Apple shouldn’t dictate standards of the entire tech sector. If Apple really did respond with that ad, then I credit them for only being more asinine then I already thought they were.

  60. jamesy said on

    I’m with ldexterldesign. I don’t understand how this is funny. Is it because the little error graphic is smaller? I don’t understand what ideas this adds that the Adobe ad didn’t already use.

  61. Right... said on

    How do unsubstantiated rumors start again? Oh right! Idiots who don’t understand sarcasm [IE: A LOT OF YOU PEOPLE]!

  62. Justin said on

    Hey Nick. I never knew that Apple’s mobile products = “entire tech sector”; that’s quite amazing! When did this happen?

  63. Dave said on

    No more Photoshop either.

  64. deaky said on

    @Brandon: “You might as well be comparing a Kia to a Porsche. ”

    Except the Porsche is actually a tanker truck full of gasoline that has sprung a leak. Flash isn’t as great most claim, and it’s had a 10-year head start. In fact, it’s done as much as Microsoft has to ruin the web, because of it’s lousy non-32-bit-Windows performance over the last 10 years. If Flash wasn’t around we’d still have all the capabilities it touts. If Flash wasn’t such a massive screw-up, HTML5 wouldn’t even be necessary.

    The fact that HTML5 is already so competitive with Flash shows just how fragile the whole Flash ecosystem really is and how far up their own asses Adobe/Macromedia really were all this time. Now even they are forced to play ball by supporting HTML5 as if they’re just rediscovering it, and trying desperately to waste everyone’s time by pointing the finger at Apple. Their demos are crashing, and they need a villain to distract us.

    Despite this, Apple isn’t any better. They’re just marginally wiser in their opportunism, and know better how to balance negative PR with positive PR. Adobe needed Apple to come around and remind them not to be smug and complacent, but since Apple is doing a fine job of running their own reputation into the ground fewer of us are worried about them.

  65. Create Avatar said on

    Funny… Adobe should make Photoshop for Apple with limited features as an answer to this one and show the apple bitten from both sides. :)

  66. Eric said on

    I’m pretty sure flash is useful, and what I’ve seen out of HTML5 has not been nearly as versatile as flash.

  67. IamRight said on

    It never ceases to amaze me how many trolls are on both sides :) …

  68. Humblopinions said on

    I am getting so sick of this debate. I guess Steve Jobs would not be living up to his reputation of being an arrogant jerk if he did not sling mud at someone. This time it’s Adobe. Google will be next (again). The man may be a genius in many ways, but he is definitely a social retard.

  69. Zack said on

    I’m on the fence with this whole petty argument, but it would be nice if they’d reach a middle ground instead of screwing the consumers. If they can’t, Apple should just do what the open source community has done and build their own version of flash.

  70. mario said on

    APPLE ☐

  71. AZ said on

    Nobody outside of the tech world gets this joke.

  72. Stormchild said on

    Moronic comments as usual.

    It’s a JOKE, retards.

  73. John T. Haller said on

    Actually, the lego brick would not be visible. Apple has hidden it on the iPad and likely will in future iPhone revisions on the iPhone and iPod Touch so that users are unaware that their device can’t render the content on the page.

  74. Rarr said on

    I don’t get it..
    Is that lego brick icon with the ? stating that flash is unsupported?
    I’ve never seen it before (Using a windows operating system.. never used apple operating systems).. Would that be the reason? Apple products just fail to run adobe content? .. How would that be Adobe’s fault? .. clearly Apple are missing something.

  75. Reader said on

    It’s a shame the iPhone users can’t see the animation of the stick figures doing it…

  76. Harhar said on

    “Funny… Adobe should make Photoshop for Apple with limited features as an answer to this one and show the apple bitten from both sides. :)”

    It would be decreased to the functionality of the old MS Paint.. considering Apple love their products to be simple, secure and bug free.

  77. Jahelvision said on

    This looks like corporate flamewar, sweet!

  78. Jim H said on

    Oh, come on. Apple still allows the Flash plugin on their computer. It just doesn’t work that well. It’s finally getting better (for some machines) with 10.1, of which I’m running the beta right now. It still has some bugs, like some weird layering of videos over popup dialogues, but it’s not horrible anymore. Finally I can leave Safari open for days and not clean caches, etc., or just be forced to restart.

    It’s even been said that Adobe’s latest Creative Suite runs pretty well. Thanks (finally) for the Cocoa, after 10 years, Adobe. I’m hoping you’ll get us 64 bit in all the apps sometime soon?

    Apple’s problem isn’t that they’ve KEPT Flash off the iPhone, it’s that there has been no Flash to put on it. Now that there is, allegedly, we’ll see. I wouldn’t put it beyond Jobs to allow the plugin for its mobile platform if it gets to work well. It hasn’t shown that it does yet, and there’s reportedly only a month or so left before release. It still takes huge resources, which is offered only by a very few phones.

    So, back to the one beef Adobe might have. I welcome Apple’s decision to keep write-once, read-many apps off the iPhone. It’s going to be brutal competition in the next few years, and Apple is going to want to be fast to introduce new features, new processors, and so on. It doesn’t need some lummox company who have done nothing but a) choose Windows and b) refuse to develop first-class apps for the Mac platform. Yes, that was a business decision. And so was this.

  79. Stacia V. said on

    How I WISH! Adobe would drop Photoshop on the Mac. That would certainly open the door for another outfit to develop an app with a modern approach to image editing, one that wasn’t littered with PCisms and PS’s legion of infernal dialog box hells!

  80. Devon said on

    Adobe was preaching that they love the ideal of allowing you to put watever the fuck on your computer….

    apple is praising that they block adobe…. i know there are some pretty fanaticy apple people out there…. but come on… you honest to god are really that blind to see how foolish apple is acting?

  81. Tim Burr said on

    I don’t get it. I assume it’s because I’ve never seen the blue little Lego thing. What is it?

  82. Tim Burr said on

    For anyone wondering, the blue Lego is an Apple specific icon showed in the browser when Flash is missing. If you (like me) stay away from Apple products, you probably don’t understand this picture. You could more or less say that if you find this funny you are an Apple fan boy.

  83. Des said on

    I am tired of people comparing Apple to Microsoft!
    That is like comparing BMW with Ford…

  84. Des said on

    Ah, and anyone who is using non-Apple computers (or products) is a bitter and poor bitch, stuck in a boring job somewhere…
    Sorry your life blows!

  85. His Shadow said on

    I’m sorry, but there is not other way to put this:

    If you think this graphic is from Apple, you are fucking retarded.

  86. Steph said on

    All Adobe has to do is “lol no mac support” on CS/Photoshop. It’d stop most corporate/business mac purchases.

  87. d38as3r said on

    Ok, meow, apple actually owns a fair bit of adobe, also what was it version 6 or some crap that photoshop was released for the pc, lol I am a mac enthusiast, just because its far superior to windows (FOR WHAT I DO) if you wanna tweet all day long get a PC, if you wanna do some real graphics work buy a mac, all you pc freaks blow my mind, WINDOWS 7 IS VISTA FFS, you’re a tool, its still junk. (to be honest this is being typeed from my amd pc I cant afford macs for home use, and they still suck at having a viable gaming machine) that being said we will all prolly be using linux within 5 years : P

  88. Tiago Celestino said on

    Apple = The Clown. Why? I received the newsletter today with content: The all-new Adobe Creative Suite 5. Get yours today.

    See the screenshot: http://fastblog.tcelestino.com.br/apple-promovendo-o-adobe-cs5 (in brazilian portuguese)

  89. buddhistMonkey said on

    Pretending that HTML5 or any combination of technologies comes even close to doing what Flash does is laughable. You might as well be comparing a Kia to a Porsche.

    A Porsche that’s speeding on an icy road, maybe.

  90. Geo said on

    Yep, Apple can’t talk modern internet language.

  91. FD said on

    Except most people don’t know what that even means, hahaha.

  92. Don Ulrich said on

    You were able extract all the trolls from under the bridge.

    Correct if I am wrong but using hardware capable formats
    like H264 would mean that computer manufactures could control your choices in video experiences….. kind of like ahhhh oh yeah Quicktime.

    Jobs is the spin master, instead of saying that all mobile devices suck power and memory when using ANY software codec and that phones have a long way to go before they are robust with respect video he points to an untested unproven in the wild spec. Yes, this will be our saving grace.

    This same dance is done over and over again.

    Obligatory troll comment:
    Before they “fix” video maybe they should actually get CSS to function better in webkit. It is shallow and superficial.

  93. Alex said on

    You can stop defending Apple for being childish. I think for the most part the general public’s opinion of Apple really can’t go much lower.

  94. Joao said on

    Eliminating the Creative Suite on the Mac is not smart business sense…those who are suggesting the Adobe do so are idiots. Apple may only own 13% of the PC marketshare but their users make up over 40% of Adobe’s purchases.

    So some of you are suggesting that Adobe give up 40% of their business in order to show Apple’s who’s boss? Nonsense.

    Stop the infighting and let the consumers decide if they need flash or not. The iPhone is not the only phone on the block.

  95. marisol lopez said on

    I agree with Apple. Flash is dead… or at least, quickly dying.

  96. DL Byron said on
  97. Jeff Barbose said on

    There needs to be a verb form for the plugin-not-found icon.

    As in, “Sh*t, I’ve been ____ed!”

    But not “Lego”. Legos are fun.

  98. Soccs said on

    You know my thoughts…. This is all propoganda… by Apple! They are doing all this Drama so they can grab everyones attention! This is the begining of its global tec domination! We all love Apple and its products.. but there is still people that still dont know whats going on here… and with all this drama they are causing attention from everywhere! Soon enough, when all the products that they want to market at a near future is set… they will stop this recusse and let Flash entry…
    Its like a superstar… you constantly have to call attention from the public… Good or Bad! it doesnt matter… that makes you live! We Humans forget easilly of things!!!

  99. Wilhelm Reuch said on

    Adobe is blurring the facts. The Apple SDK licensing they are so upset about has nothing to do with web content. It was Adobe trying to piggyback their own app platform (not the browser plugin) on top of the Apple SDK.

    As for the Flash-plugin monopoly it is, to say the least, threatening. Anyone who is trying to build a product to surf the web is dependent on Adobe. If Adobe doesnt support your product/startup you are basically f*cked.

    Does anyone really think (after what we have seen the last months) the Adobe folks are mature enough for that kind of responsibility? Do we really want a monopoly like that?

    If the answer is no – stop whining about Apple. They are doing us all a favor here.

  100. Don said on

    Thinking Further –
    H264 is a hardware codec right? The real money here is DRM and Apple licensing vid content the same way they do music. Think about it. Why could Lala let you listen to
    entire albums and download tunes with no DRM attached?
    I am beginning to wonder who is calling the DRM shots.
    Just kinda funky this whole thing.

  101. onlineconnect said on

    Very Very Funny !

  102. Shane said on

    I think both company’s should grow up and stop acting like children. Their both wrong!

  103. Synchro said on

    For what they paid for their “We love Apple” ads, Adobe could probably have paid for a complete black-box rewrite of flash player. A quick and decisive implementation that addressed all of Apple’s concerns and got them out of their aged code base would have been something worth having.

  104. Pax Dickinson said on

    Flash doesn’t run on my Xbox, PSP, or refrigerator either.

    Why do Microsoft, Sony, and Frigidaire hate my freedom?

  105. Bobby said on

    LOL!!!! Whats really funny is all of the comments saying ” Why do they have to Fight” (with tears in my eyes and a crap smelling face) or ” Please grow up blah blah blah balh”….LMAO…It’s a frickin joke…get over it. This isn’t the “Everybody Wins Game” it’s A JOKE… If you want to be heard do it through your work…Now get back to work…

    Have a great day

  106. Juan said on

    I don’t get the joke… The whole advertising thing was done on Flash, so why show just the text? First signs of Fanboyism by our pal here Zeldman. He just love to pick sides and then fight for one of the causes. Mr. Standardista.

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  108. sazkove kancelare said on

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  109. Gabriel de Kadt said on

    Nice pic. Funny.

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