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	<title>Comments on: Steve Jobs and Me on Flash</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.zeldman.com/2010/04/29/steve-jobs-on-flash/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.zeldman.com/2010/04/29/steve-jobs-on-flash/</link>
	<description>Web design news and insights since 1995</description>
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		<title>By: m3i zero</title>
		<link>http://www.zeldman.com/2010/04/29/steve-jobs-on-flash/#comment-55059</link>
		<dc:creator>m3i zero</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 May 2010 08:55:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.zeldman.com/?p=4876#comment-55059</guid>
		<description>Yeah html5 will give a few very nice new options to work with flash I really need to start working with it asap</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yeah html5 will give a few very nice new options to work with flash I really need to start working with it asap</p>
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		<title>By: R4ikaart</title>
		<link>http://www.zeldman.com/2010/04/29/steve-jobs-on-flash/#comment-54998</link>
		<dc:creator>R4ikaart</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 16 May 2010 07:25:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.zeldman.com/?p=4876#comment-54998</guid>
		<description>came here looking for something else but kyle this kinf of language is not condoned and because of people like you there needs to be moderation.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>came here looking for something else but kyle this kinf of language is not condoned and because of people like you there needs to be moderation.</p>
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		<title>By: Jeffrey Zeldman</title>
		<link>http://www.zeldman.com/2010/04/29/steve-jobs-on-flash/#comment-54989</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeffrey Zeldman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 15 May 2010 15:49:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.zeldman.com/?p=4876#comment-54989</guid>
		<description>Dear Kyle: Stop shouting, you&#039;ll hurt your throat.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dear Kyle: Stop shouting, you&#8217;ll hurt your throat.</p>
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		<title>By: Kyle</title>
		<link>http://www.zeldman.com/2010/04/29/steve-jobs-on-flash/#comment-54967</link>
		<dc:creator>Kyle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 15 May 2010 02:57:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.zeldman.com/?p=4876#comment-54967</guid>
		<description>I PRINTED OUT AN ENTIRE COPY OF YOUR WEBSITE AND INSERTED IT INTO MY ANUS.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I PRINTED OUT AN ENTIRE COPY OF YOUR WEBSITE AND INSERTED IT INTO MY ANUS.</p>
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		<title>By: Kyle</title>
		<link>http://www.zeldman.com/2010/04/29/steve-jobs-on-flash/#comment-54966</link>
		<dc:creator>Kyle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 15 May 2010 02:57:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.zeldman.com/?p=4876#comment-54966</guid>
		<description>MODERATED MESSAGE BOARDS IS A FORM OF CENSORSHIP.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>MODERATED MESSAGE BOARDS IS A FORM OF CENSORSHIP.</p>
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		<title>By: Kyle</title>
		<link>http://www.zeldman.com/2010/04/29/steve-jobs-on-flash/#comment-54965</link>
		<dc:creator>Kyle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 15 May 2010 02:56:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.zeldman.com/?p=4876#comment-54965</guid>
		<description>I would love to know what kind of Flash sites you all are going to that crash your browser all the time. I basically never have that problem. Yeah, sometimes shit goes wrong, but most of the time it’s not because of an all-Flash website. It’s nothing that I can even come CLOSE to complaining about.

One thing I really don’t understand is why Apple doesn’t give their users the option. Aside from that – why would Apple’s latest “unveiling” talk about how iPhone/iPad app developers are now encouraged to give away their apps for free – only to make any revenue on in app advertisements via iAd. FUCK THAT. I feel strongly that if an app is worth anything to me – I should be paying for that. Ads that appear in the apps that I want to use sounds absolutely-effing-atrocious. Advertisements are the worst fucking thing on this planet. Also – most ads, currently are served using Flash. HMMMMMMMMM…………………………………………..

You’re all a bunch of retards. Steve Jobs – you’ve made some great products but I’m not willing to choke on your cock.  Seriously.  I created the universe.

Thanks.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I would love to know what kind of Flash sites you all are going to that crash your browser all the time. I basically never have that problem. Yeah, sometimes shit goes wrong, but most of the time it’s not because of an all-Flash website. It’s nothing that I can even come CLOSE to complaining about.</p>
<p>One thing I really don’t understand is why Apple doesn’t give their users the option. Aside from that – why would Apple’s latest “unveiling” talk about how iPhone/iPad app developers are now encouraged to give away their apps for free – only to make any revenue on in app advertisements via iAd. FUCK THAT. I feel strongly that if an app is worth anything to me – I should be paying for that. Ads that appear in the apps that I want to use sounds absolutely-effing-atrocious. Advertisements are the worst fucking thing on this planet. Also – most ads, currently are served using Flash. HMMMMMMMMM…………………………………………..</p>
<p>You’re all a bunch of retards. Steve Jobs – you’ve made some great products but I’m not willing to choke on your cock.  Seriously.  I created the universe.</p>
<p>Thanks.</p>
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		<title>By: Muz</title>
		<link>http://www.zeldman.com/2010/04/29/steve-jobs-on-flash/#comment-54713</link>
		<dc:creator>Muz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 May 2010 20:59:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.zeldman.com/?p=4876#comment-54713</guid>
		<description>Your All Mad with you big rants using your basic knowledge of the subject at hand, its one mans thoughts on flash from a well educated background on the subject, of course hes gonna spin it to apple&#039;s side, wouldnt you in his position.

he&#039;s only answering the the internets backlash to apple products and flash, you dont like it?, you dont have to... but his stance on the subject is there for you to constantly bicker about....

i love watching you all play straight into steves marketing hands, see vanhousens comments above :D

have fun...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Your All Mad with you big rants using your basic knowledge of the subject at hand, its one mans thoughts on flash from a well educated background on the subject, of course hes gonna spin it to apple&#8217;s side, wouldnt you in his position.</p>
<p>he&#8217;s only answering the the internets backlash to apple products and flash, you dont like it?, you dont have to&#8230; but his stance on the subject is there for you to constantly bicker about&#8230;.</p>
<p>i love watching you all play straight into steves marketing hands, see vanhousens comments above :D</p>
<p>have fun&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: vanhousen</title>
		<link>http://www.zeldman.com/2010/04/29/steve-jobs-on-flash/#comment-54653</link>
		<dc:creator>vanhousen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 01 May 2010 07:46:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.zeldman.com/?p=4876#comment-54653</guid>
		<description>c&#039;mon guys, Steve is a marketing pro, this letter is not about any tech-stuff, all the ranting about Adobe-Flash is marketing, it&#039;s a marketing technique called &quot;fear, uncertainty, and doubt (FUD)&quot;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>c&#8217;mon guys, Steve is a marketing pro, this letter is not about any tech-stuff, all the ranting about Adobe-Flash is marketing, it&#8217;s a marketing technique called &#8220;fear, uncertainty, and doubt (FUD)&#8221;.</p>
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		<title>By: Juan</title>
		<link>http://www.zeldman.com/2010/04/29/steve-jobs-on-flash/#comment-54651</link>
		<dc:creator>Juan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 Apr 2010 22:37:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.zeldman.com/?p=4876#comment-54651</guid>
		<description>Steve is going senile on us, like some &quot;standardistas&quot; with hats...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Steve is going senile on us, like some &#8220;standardistas&#8221; with hats&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Jim H</title>
		<link>http://www.zeldman.com/2010/04/29/steve-jobs-on-flash/#comment-54650</link>
		<dc:creator>Jim H</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 Apr 2010 22:03:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.zeldman.com/?p=4876#comment-54650</guid>
		<description>You know, Jobs didn&#039;t say, &quot;No more Flash on the Mac.&quot; In fact, I&#039;m running &quot;Gala,&quot; the latest 10.1 beta, as we speak. It&#039;s better. It&#039;s likely there&#039;s no way to kill Flash, in fact. 

On the mobile platform, it still doesn&#039;t exist. What&#039;s there is a truncated version that doesn&#039;t play the stuff you need. The infamous 10.1 for mobile is still vaporware, after 3 years of the iPhone. Will it ever appear? Will the other platforms support it? Will it work very well, without destroying the battery? Or is it like the Microsoft Courier, or the HP Windows 7 tablet, vaporware, intended to divert attention from the iPad launch, but never to see the light of day?

Anybody who doesn&#039;t understand why Apple bans Flash apps should look at the last ten years of Adobe and Apple. When OS X was announced, they needed the big guys to write apps for it, and provided the Carbon interface to link their past code with the present. It also made Photoshop slow and buggy. Now, 9 years later, Adobe finally deigns to write the apps for CS5 in Cocoa, 64-bit. Thank you. So, when Apple&#039;s market was small, they had to placate. They don&#039;t have to take that anymore, with 85 million iPhones out there. 

An app written with another interface cannot possibly give the user the same experience on a mobile platform. When Apple decides to change a processor or  the visual interface, how long would Adobe take to adapt, especially if it meant making a version with a feature that wouldn&#039;t work with the latest Blackberry or Android phone?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You know, Jobs didn&#8217;t say, &#8220;No more Flash on the Mac.&#8221; In fact, I&#8217;m running &#8220;Gala,&#8221; the latest 10.1 beta, as we speak. It&#8217;s better. It&#8217;s likely there&#8217;s no way to kill Flash, in fact. </p>
<p>On the mobile platform, it still doesn&#8217;t exist. What&#8217;s there is a truncated version that doesn&#8217;t play the stuff you need. The infamous 10.1 for mobile is still vaporware, after 3 years of the iPhone. Will it ever appear? Will the other platforms support it? Will it work very well, without destroying the battery? Or is it like the Microsoft Courier, or the HP Windows 7 tablet, vaporware, intended to divert attention from the iPad launch, but never to see the light of day?</p>
<p>Anybody who doesn&#8217;t understand why Apple bans Flash apps should look at the last ten years of Adobe and Apple. When OS X was announced, they needed the big guys to write apps for it, and provided the Carbon interface to link their past code with the present. It also made Photoshop slow and buggy. Now, 9 years later, Adobe finally deigns to write the apps for CS5 in Cocoa, 64-bit. Thank you. So, when Apple&#8217;s market was small, they had to placate. They don&#8217;t have to take that anymore, with 85 million iPhones out there. </p>
<p>An app written with another interface cannot possibly give the user the same experience on a mobile platform. When Apple decides to change a processor or  the visual interface, how long would Adobe take to adapt, especially if it meant making a version with a feature that wouldn&#8217;t work with the latest Blackberry or Android phone?</p>
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		<title>By: Jim H</title>
		<link>http://www.zeldman.com/2010/04/29/steve-jobs-on-flash/#comment-54649</link>
		<dc:creator>Jim H</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 Apr 2010 21:47:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.zeldman.com/?p=4876#comment-54649</guid>
		<description>From Sony, dateline 2010:

Sony announces that they are discontinuing production of the floppy disk. 

From Adobe, dateline 2014:

Adobe is discontinuing the development of Mobile Flash, and announcing &quot;Product X,&quot; their designer tool for HTML 5 images, movies and vector animation. Adobe, which once owned the market for web animation and video, has sunk very quickly, even after they put their Adobe Flash application open source last year. 

&quot;Open source, closed source, it doesn&#039;t matter. Flash is a pig,&quot; said the Norwegian developer who had released several versions of the open source project, &quot;Flashbang.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>From Sony, dateline 2010:</p>
<p>Sony announces that they are discontinuing production of the floppy disk. </p>
<p>From Adobe, dateline 2014:</p>
<p>Adobe is discontinuing the development of Mobile Flash, and announcing &#8220;Product X,&#8221; their designer tool for HTML 5 images, movies and vector animation. Adobe, which once owned the market for web animation and video, has sunk very quickly, even after they put their Adobe Flash application open source last year. </p>
<p>&#8220;Open source, closed source, it doesn&#8217;t matter. Flash is a pig,&#8221; said the Norwegian developer who had released several versions of the open source project, &#8220;Flashbang.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Corporal Punishment</title>
		<link>http://www.zeldman.com/2010/04/29/steve-jobs-on-flash/#comment-54648</link>
		<dc:creator>Corporal Punishment</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 Apr 2010 21:43:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.zeldman.com/?p=4876#comment-54648</guid>
		<description>Every definition of &quot;open standard&quot; I can find states that it must be royalty-free. Therefore h.264 cannot be called a open standard. While Jobs might have left the open part out of his letter, the h.264 page on apple.com claims it is a open standard multiple times (http://www.apple.com/quicktime/technologies/h264/faq.html).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Every definition of &#8220;open standard&#8221; I can find states that it must be royalty-free. Therefore h.264 cannot be called a open standard. While Jobs might have left the open part out of his letter, the h.264 page on apple.com claims it is a open standard multiple times (<a href="http://www.apple.com/quicktime/technologies/h264/faq.html">http://www.apple.com/quicktime/technologies/h264/faq.html</a>).</p>
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		<title>By: Adam</title>
		<link>http://www.zeldman.com/2010/04/29/steve-jobs-on-flash/#comment-54647</link>
		<dc:creator>Adam</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 Apr 2010 19:32:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.zeldman.com/?p=4876#comment-54647</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m glad to read so many posts that see through Apples complete hypocrisy. The flaws in Job&#039;s public letter further illustrate the lunacy of Apple&#039;s arguments, especially regarding CS5&#039;s iPhone compiler. Here are some highlights I noticed:

- H264 (and AAC) is not open
- Apple&#039;s own programs took a long time to get ported to Cocoa &amp; 64-bit
- Flash-created iPhone binaries do not necessarily kill battery life or otherwise misbehave (there are example apps created with CS5 in the App Store at this very moment; test them yourself)
- In the case of games, developers simply don&#039;t care about having access to low-level APIs (Flash devs are used to working in a browser sandbox for example)
- Flash-created binaries would be subject to the same restrictions (no private APIs, etc) as regular apps.
- The CS5 iPhone app compilation feature requires absolutely no additional work on Apple&#039;s part; it would have been a freebie of a million new app developers, all subject to the same Apple-takes-30%-profit scheme
- As for banning unsigned apps to &quot;protect the children&quot; (an earlier argument from Jobs), your kid can just open a porn site in Safari or chat with a child predator on AIM
- Jobs claims the iPhone uses open standards but really the iPhone itself DOES NOT use open standards. SAFARI the WEB BROWSER does. HTML, CSS, JavaScript, and H264 cannot legally be used (nor can any common scripting language) to create native iPhone apps, and instead are limited to web pages. Further, apps are locked into the App Store and iTunes, and are under Apple&#039;s complete control. A Mac and a yearly fee are required to use Apple&#039;s proprietary iPhone developer tools</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m glad to read so many posts that see through Apples complete hypocrisy. The flaws in Job&#8217;s public letter further illustrate the lunacy of Apple&#8217;s arguments, especially regarding CS5&#8242;s iPhone compiler. Here are some highlights I noticed:</p>
<p>- H264 (and AAC) is not open<br />
- Apple&#8217;s own programs took a long time to get ported to Cocoa &amp; 64-bit<br />
- Flash-created iPhone binaries do not necessarily kill battery life or otherwise misbehave (there are example apps created with CS5 in the App Store at this very moment; test them yourself)<br />
- In the case of games, developers simply don&#8217;t care about having access to low-level APIs (Flash devs are used to working in a browser sandbox for example)<br />
- Flash-created binaries would be subject to the same restrictions (no private APIs, etc) as regular apps.<br />
- The CS5 iPhone app compilation feature requires absolutely no additional work on Apple&#8217;s part; it would have been a freebie of a million new app developers, all subject to the same Apple-takes-30%-profit scheme<br />
- As for banning unsigned apps to &#8220;protect the children&#8221; (an earlier argument from Jobs), your kid can just open a porn site in Safari or chat with a child predator on AIM<br />
- Jobs claims the iPhone uses open standards but really the iPhone itself DOES NOT use open standards. SAFARI the WEB BROWSER does. HTML, CSS, JavaScript, and H264 cannot legally be used (nor can any common scripting language) to create native iPhone apps, and instead are limited to web pages. Further, apps are locked into the App Store and iTunes, and are under Apple&#8217;s complete control. A Mac and a yearly fee are required to use Apple&#8217;s proprietary iPhone developer tools</p>
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		<title>By: iedge</title>
		<link>http://www.zeldman.com/2010/04/29/steve-jobs-on-flash/#comment-54634</link>
		<dc:creator>iedge</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 Apr 2010 11:26:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.zeldman.com/?p=4876#comment-54634</guid>
		<description>I really don&#039;t understand why Steve Jobs says no to Flash when Flash can do what HTML5 can&#039;t do today also.Flash will be on its place ever.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I really don&#8217;t understand why Steve Jobs says no to Flash when Flash can do what HTML5 can&#8217;t do today also.Flash will be on its place ever.</p>
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		<title>By: fouk</title>
		<link>http://www.zeldman.com/2010/04/29/steve-jobs-on-flash/#comment-54633</link>
		<dc:creator>fouk</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 Apr 2010 10:58:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.zeldman.com/?p=4876#comment-54633</guid>
		<description>&lt;cite&gt;Adobe’s Flash products are 100% proprietary. They are only available from Adobe, and Adobe has sole authority as to their future enhancement, pricing, etc. While Adobe’s Flash products are widely available, this does not mean they are open, since they are controlled entirely by Adobe and available only from Adobe. By almost any definition, Flash is a closed system.&lt;/cite&gt;

Apples products are 100% proprietary. They are only available from Apple, and Apple has sole authority as to their future enhancement, pricing, etc. While Apple products are widely available, this does not mean they are open, since they are controlled entirely by Apple and available only from Apple. By almost any definition, it is a closed system.

funny ain&#039;t it ...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><cite>Adobe’s Flash products are 100% proprietary. They are only available from Adobe, and Adobe has sole authority as to their future enhancement, pricing, etc. While Adobe’s Flash products are widely available, this does not mean they are open, since they are controlled entirely by Adobe and available only from Adobe. By almost any definition, Flash is a closed system.</cite></p>
<p>Apples products are 100% proprietary. They are only available from Apple, and Apple has sole authority as to their future enhancement, pricing, etc. While Apple products are widely available, this does not mean they are open, since they are controlled entirely by Apple and available only from Apple. By almost any definition, it is a closed system.</p>
<p>funny ain&#8217;t it &#8230;</p>
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