Comments on: Flash, iPad, Standards http://www.zeldman.com/2010/02/01/flash-ipad-standards/ Web design news and insights since 1995 Thu, 02 Feb 2012 19:54:47 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2.1 By: Ahem – Jeffrey Zeldman Presents The Daily Report http://www.zeldman.com/2010/02/01/flash-ipad-standards/#comment-52079 Ahem – Jeffrey Zeldman Presents The Daily Report Wed, 03 Feb 2010 11:39:23 +0000 http://www.zeldman.com/?p=3585#comment-52079 [...] first part of my post of 1 February was not an attack on Flash. It described a way of working with Flash that also supports users who [...] [...] first part of my post of 1 February was not an attack on Flash. It described a way of working with Flash that also supports users who [...]

]]> By: Apple vs Adobe :: novapages.com http://www.zeldman.com/2010/02/01/flash-ipad-standards/#comment-52077 Apple vs Adobe :: novapages.com Wed, 03 Feb 2010 07:04:47 +0000 http://www.zeldman.com/?p=3585#comment-52077 [...] Jefferey Zeldman, of course, said it better than I could: “Lack of Flash in the iPad (and before that, in the iPhone) is a win for accessible, standards-based design. Not because Flash is bad, but because the increasing popularity of devices that don’t support Flash is going to force recalcitrant web developers to build the semantic HTML layer first.” [...] [...] Jefferey Zeldman, of course, said it better than I could: “Lack of Flash in the iPad (and before that, in the iPhone) is a win for accessible, standards-based design. Not because Flash is bad, but because the increasing popularity of devices that don’t support Flash is going to force recalcitrant web developers to build the semantic HTML layer first.” [...]

]]> By: Whither Flash? | Interactive Design Lab http://www.zeldman.com/2010/02/01/flash-ipad-standards/#comment-52074 Whither Flash? | Interactive Design Lab Wed, 03 Feb 2010 05:08:29 +0000 http://www.zeldman.com/?p=3585#comment-52074 [...] http://www.zeldman.com/2010/02/01/flash-ipad-standards/ (No Ratings Yet)  Loading ... Tuesday, February 2nd, 2010 Passions [...] [...] http://www.zeldman.com/2010/02/01/flash-ipad-standards/ (No Ratings Yet)  Loading … Tuesday, February 2nd, 2010 Passions [...]

]]> By: Sharat http://www.zeldman.com/2010/02/01/flash-ipad-standards/#comment-52072 Sharat Wed, 03 Feb 2010 03:50:17 +0000 http://www.zeldman.com/?p=3585#comment-52072 Going down the list of comments, the particular one that i feel the need to respond to is one by @Mitchell made Feb.1(yesterday) at 3:07pm: <q cite="Mitchell">The argument that Apple doesn’t allow Flash is because the want to sell apps doesn’t hold much water. Those who think this is the case haven’t really done the math to see that the app store isn’t a cash cow at all.</q> That made me think, <em>Hey, that's total bogus</em>. But thanks to Mitchell, I did doubt my certainty enough to try and read up on the matter, and one great opinion piece on the matter is over here at <a href="http://www.techcrunch.com/2009/05/14/about-those-iphone-app-store-numbers/" title="TechCrunch on iPhone App Store" rel="nofollow">TechCrunch</a>. Clearly, the App Store moves iPhone units, and soon iPad units. If Apple didn't care about that they'd be stupid. On the other hand, to address Mr.Zeldman's(as a recent high school graduate i'd feel unsure addressing you as Jeffrey:D) article directly, it is well written, but it does not jive with my view of the computing world.<i>Disclaimer: I am not illiterate computer-wise.</i> In fact, my dad is an IT professional, so i'm generally skilled. Yet by no means have i taken apart my computer to modify it. Still I am inclined to want my freedom to tinker, regardless of whether I'll utilize that right or not. I am a curious guy, and I daresay there are plenty of my kind, and to speak for myself, I want my computing experience to be tailored to me. I play competitive tennis, love singing vocal music of any kind, would love to do charity, and would like to learn to dance like Michael Jackson. My point being, I'm not a total geek. I suggest a truce between, closed and super-easy interaction experiences, and modular and confusing interaction experiences. How about the corporate giants offer closed systems that appeal to folks who don't want to tinker, and small businesses can take up the niche demands of us tinkerers. Going down the list of comments, the particular one that i feel the need to respond to is one by @Mitchell made Feb.1(yesterday) at 3:07pm:

The argument that Apple doesn’t allow Flash is because the want to sell apps doesn’t hold much water. Those who think this is the case haven’t really done the math to see that the app store isn’t a cash cow at all.

That made me think, Hey, that’s total bogus. But thanks to Mitchell, I did doubt my certainty enough to try and read up on the matter, and one great opinion piece on the matter is over here at TechCrunch. Clearly, the App Store moves iPhone units, and soon iPad units. If Apple didn’t care about that they’d be stupid.

On the other hand, to address Mr.Zeldman’s(as a recent high school graduate i’d feel unsure addressing you as Jeffrey:D) article directly, it is well written, but it does not jive with my view of the computing world.Disclaimer: I am not illiterate computer-wise. In fact, my dad is an IT professional, so i’m generally skilled. Yet by no means have i taken apart my computer to modify it. Still I am inclined to want my freedom to tinker, regardless of whether I’ll utilize that right or not. I am a curious guy, and I daresay there are plenty of my kind, and to speak for myself, I want my computing experience to be tailored to me. I play competitive tennis, love singing vocal music of any kind, would love to do charity, and would like to learn to dance like Michael Jackson. My point being, I’m not a total geek. I suggest a truce between, closed and super-easy interaction experiences, and modular and confusing interaction experiences. How about the corporate giants offer closed systems that appeal to folks who don’t want to tinker, and small businesses can take up the niche demands of us tinkerers.

]]> By: _mark http://www.zeldman.com/2010/02/01/flash-ipad-standards/#comment-52065 _mark Wed, 03 Feb 2010 01:32:16 +0000 http://www.zeldman.com/?p=3585#comment-52065 @grasshopper Your system has a bug (bottom line). If it crashed on everyone or even 20%, all these flash RIA's wouldn't even exist. Think about it. I HAVE NEVER EXPERIENCED FLASH CRASH ON A MAJOR (Reputable) SITE / RIA (Even with several tabs opened). I wonder how many of these mac users who experience these 'crashes' have a bug in their system or possibly a corrupt / outdated flash installation? I also wonder, what site(s) they are visiting and how many tabs/windows they have opened? The only time I ever experience crashing is on a site that is running a 'questionable' script via flash. In which, I'm glad flash stops running! ----- btw for all those who think HTML5 is going to be any better than flash or some kind of 'magic cure all', think again.. There's absolutely no reason to assume that HTML5 will be faster or more stable than Flash. You can write bad code in any development environment. Just wait and see. http://www.hboimagine.com/ @grasshopper

Your system has a bug (bottom line). If it crashed on everyone or even 20%, all these flash RIA’s wouldn’t even exist. Think about it.

I HAVE NEVER EXPERIENCED FLASH CRASH ON A MAJOR (Reputable) SITE / RIA (Even with several tabs opened).

I wonder how many of these mac users who experience these ‘crashes’ have a bug in their system or possibly a corrupt / outdated flash installation?

I also wonder, what site(s) they are visiting and how many tabs/windows they have opened?

The only time I ever experience crashing is on a site that is running a ‘questionable’ script via flash. In which, I’m glad flash stops running!
—–

btw for all those who think HTML5 is going to be any better than flash or some kind of ‘magic cure all’, think again..

There’s absolutely no reason to assume that HTML5 will be faster or more stable than Flash.

You can write bad code in any development environment. Just wait and see.

http://www.hboimagine.com/

]]> By: HTML and Flash Thoughts | Ryan Stewart – Rich Internet Application Mountaineer http://www.zeldman.com/2010/02/01/flash-ipad-standards/#comment-52064 HTML and Flash Thoughts | Ryan Stewart – Rich Internet Application Mountaineer Wed, 03 Feb 2010 01:12:30 +0000 http://www.zeldman.com/?p=3585#comment-52064 [...] for Flash and for web tools. That and a couple of other posts got me thinking a bit. The first is Jeffrey Zeldman’s post. He contrasts Flash with some of the benefits of standards. Most of the time I see “HTML5 is [...] [...] for Flash and for web tools. That and a couple of other posts got me thinking a bit. The first is Jeffrey Zeldman’s post. He contrasts Flash with some of the benefits of standards. Most of the time I see “HTML5 is [...]

]]> By: The Flash debate… « Technology and Learning http://www.zeldman.com/2010/02/01/flash-ipad-standards/#comment-52063 The Flash debate… « Technology and Learning Wed, 03 Feb 2010 01:10:58 +0000 http://www.zeldman.com/?p=3585#comment-52063 [...] is what Jeffrey Zeldman, a web standards advocate, had to say about the iPad not supporting Flash: (reference: Podcasting [...] [...] is what Jeffrey Zeldman, a web standards advocate, had to say about the iPad not supporting Flash: (reference: Podcasting [...]

]]> By: Jeffrey Zeldman http://www.zeldman.com/2010/02/01/flash-ipad-standards/#comment-52060 Jeffrey Zeldman Tue, 02 Feb 2010 23:37:06 +0000 http://www.zeldman.com/?p=3585#comment-52060 <blockquote> So… web designers have to build a crappy, boring, bland version of every website for people who lack really basic web enable tools like Flash before they can make something creative and worthwhile? </blockquote> Insightful.

So… web designers have to build a crappy, boring, bland version of every website for people who lack really basic web enable tools like Flash before they can make something creative and worthwhile?

Insightful.

]]> By: Inventing Interactive » The End of Flash? http://www.zeldman.com/2010/02/01/flash-ipad-standards/#comment-52059 Inventing Interactive » The End of Flash? Tue, 02 Feb 2010 22:59:29 +0000 http://www.zeldman.com/?p=3585#comment-52059 [...] Zeldman argues that users don’t want to tweak their browsers and install plug-ins and extensions. [...] [...] Zeldman argues that users don’t want to tweak their browsers and install plug-ins and extensions. [...]

]]> By: matthew http://www.zeldman.com/2010/02/01/flash-ipad-standards/#comment-52058 matthew Tue, 02 Feb 2010 22:30:07 +0000 http://www.zeldman.com/?p=3585#comment-52058 Thanks for calling some attention to the fact that the overblown outpouring of Flash hate is really a disparaging of the whole plug-in system. Do people really want to give up plug-ins? Thanks for calling some attention to the fact that the overblown outpouring of Flash hate is really a disparaging of the whole plug-in system. Do people really want to give up plug-ins?

]]> By: No Flash is good news « ADA Nevada http://www.zeldman.com/2010/02/01/flash-ipad-standards/#comment-52056 No Flash is good news « ADA Nevada Tue, 02 Feb 2010 22:02:15 +0000 http://www.zeldman.com/?p=3585#comment-52056 [...] Lack of Flash in the iPad (and before that, in the iPhone) is a win for accessible, standards-based design. Not because Flash is bad, but because the increasing popularity of devices that don’t support Flash is going to force recalcitrant web developers to build the semantic HTML layer first. Additional layers of Flash UX can then be optionally added in, just as, in proper, accessible, standards-based development, JavaScript UX enhancements are added only after we verify that the site works without them. (full article) [...] [...] Lack of Flash in the iPad (and before that, in the iPhone) is a win for accessible, standards-based design. Not because Flash is bad, but because the increasing popularity of devices that don’t support Flash is going to force recalcitrant web developers to build the semantic HTML layer first. Additional layers of Flash UX can then be optionally added in, just as, in proper, accessible, standards-based development, JavaScript UX enhancements are added only after we verify that the site works without them. (full article) [...]

]]> By: noelbear http://www.zeldman.com/2010/02/01/flash-ipad-standards/#comment-52055 noelbear Tue, 02 Feb 2010 21:17:52 +0000 http://www.zeldman.com/?p=3585#comment-52055 So... web designers have to build a crappy, boring, bland version of every website for people who lack really basic web enable tools like Flash before they can make something creative and worthwhile? Designing for the least common denominator is the reason why every Hollywood Movie sucks - and I don't see any reason why this mentality should be allowed to ruin the next generation of media also. So… web designers have to build a crappy, boring, bland version of every website for people who lack really basic web enable tools like Flash before they can make something creative and worthwhile?

Designing for the least common denominator is the reason why every Hollywood Movie sucks – and I don’t see any reason why this mentality should be allowed to ruin the next generation of media also.

]]> By: Mike Duguid http://www.zeldman.com/2010/02/01/flash-ipad-standards/#comment-52054 Mike Duguid Tue, 02 Feb 2010 20:54:59 +0000 http://www.zeldman.com/?p=3585#comment-52054 Can HTML5 +JS equal the advanced capabilities of online apps like aviary, splashup, soundation, hobnox audiotool? Not even close. There will always be innovators and talented developers that want to push the boundaries of what can be done on the web, and public appetite to consume their output, so there will always be a place for plugins that supply extra functionality beyond the glacial pace of the web standards catch-up process . Anyway, The iPad? It's the iCant No USB, no camera, phone, no flash, no freedom, a 90's-esque walled garden. It does however come with a free app - a torch. It's for all the mac yes-men, so they can still see while their heads are stuffed up Steve Jobs **** ;-) Can HTML5 +JS equal the advanced capabilities of online apps like aviary, splashup, soundation, hobnox audiotool? Not even close.
There will always be innovators and talented developers that want to push the boundaries of what can be done on the web, and public appetite to consume their output, so there will always be a place for plugins that supply extra functionality beyond the glacial pace of the web standards catch-up process .

Anyway, The iPad?

It’s the iCant

No USB, no camera, phone, no flash, no freedom, a 90′s-esque walled garden. It does however come with a free app – a torch. It’s for all the mac yes-men, so they can still see while their heads are stuffed up Steve Jobs **** ;-)

]]> By: The Future of Flash http://www.zeldman.com/2010/02/01/flash-ipad-standards/#comment-52053 The Future of Flash Tue, 02 Feb 2010 20:28:33 +0000 http://www.zeldman.com/?p=3585#comment-52053 [...] When Steve Jobs sat on stage using an iPad that clearly didn’t support Flash, the discussion of Flash and iPhone OS instantly shifted from “Will Apple ever allow Flash on iPhone OS?” to “What does it mean for Flash that Apple will never allow it on iPhone OS?” to, in some cases, “What does it mean for the Web that Flash is on its way out?“ [...] [...] When Steve Jobs sat on stage using an iPad that clearly didn’t support Flash, the discussion of Flash and iPhone OS instantly shifted from “Will Apple ever allow Flash on iPhone OS?” to “What does it mean for Flash that Apple will never allow it on iPhone OS?” to, in some cases, “What does it mean for the Web that Flash is on its way out?“ [...]

]]> By: Jeffrey Zeldman http://www.zeldman.com/2010/02/01/flash-ipad-standards/#comment-52050 Jeffrey Zeldman Tue, 02 Feb 2010 20:18:04 +0000 http://www.zeldman.com/?p=3585#comment-52050 @ Sebhelyesfarku said: <blockquote> I like how Maczealots make ideologies about Apple’s business decisions. Standards… my ass. </blockquote> That is awesome. @ Sebhelyesfarku said:

I like how Maczealots make ideologies about Apple’s business decisions. Standards… my ass.

That is awesome.

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