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	<title>Comments on: Posthumous Hosting and Digital Culture</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.zeldman.com/2010/01/21/posthumous-hosting-and-digital-culture/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.zeldman.com/2010/01/21/posthumous-hosting-and-digital-culture/</link>
	<description>Web design news and insights since 1995</description>
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		<title>By: Don Marti</title>
		<link>http://www.zeldman.com/2010/01/21/posthumous-hosting-and-digital-culture/#comment-52291</link>
		<dc:creator>Don Marti</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Feb 2010 21:49:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.zeldman.com/?p=3506#comment-52291</guid>
		<description>100 years is good, but safer would be &quot;until the copyright expires, plus n years.&quot;  Trust that it will get mirrored or published after expiration if someone still wants or needs it (Side effect: it gives the hosting co. an incentive to lobby against future copyright extensions.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>100 years is good, but safer would be &#8220;until the copyright expires, plus n years.&#8221;  Trust that it will get mirrored or published after expiration if someone still wants or needs it (Side effect: it gives the hosting co. an incentive to lobby against future copyright extensions.)</p>
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		<title>By: Caroline van Oosten de Boer &#187; Daily Digest for February 9th</title>
		<link>http://www.zeldman.com/2010/01/21/posthumous-hosting-and-digital-culture/#comment-52247</link>
		<dc:creator>Caroline van Oosten de Boer &#187; Daily Digest for February 9th</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Feb 2010 00:10:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.zeldman.com/?p=3506#comment-52247</guid>
		<description>[...] Shared Posthumous Hosting and Digital Culture – Jeffrey Zeldman Presents The Daily Report. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Shared Posthumous Hosting and Digital Culture – Jeffrey Zeldman Presents The Daily Report. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Theo</title>
		<link>http://www.zeldman.com/2010/01/21/posthumous-hosting-and-digital-culture/#comment-52134</link>
		<dc:creator>Theo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Feb 2010 23:24:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.zeldman.com/?p=3506#comment-52134</guid>
		<description>I think this is the best post i ever read. I lost my brother and some people real close to me in my early years, so i do store data everywhere i can, i even use gmail to store data and yes i have a some small Moleskine full with passwords 

@Derek K. Miller: I`m really sorry !

@Zeldman: Thank you for this post !</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think this is the best post i ever read. I lost my brother and some people real close to me in my early years, so i do store data everywhere i can, i even use gmail to store data and yes i have a some small Moleskine full with passwords </p>
<p>@Derek K. Miller: I`m really sorry !</p>
<p>@Zeldman: Thank you for this post !</p>
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		<title>By: biurka</title>
		<link>http://www.zeldman.com/2010/01/21/posthumous-hosting-and-digital-culture/#comment-51836</link>
		<dc:creator>biurka</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 Jan 2010 10:50:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.zeldman.com/?p=3506#comment-51836</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m from Europe, small country and I agree with J.Z. - &quot;Not in America, anyway. :(&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m from Europe, small country and I agree with J.Z. &#8211; &#8220;Not in America, anyway. :(&#8220;</p>
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		<title>By: Ben Smithett</title>
		<link>http://www.zeldman.com/2010/01/21/posthumous-hosting-and-digital-culture/#comment-51821</link>
		<dc:creator>Ben Smithett</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 Jan 2010 00:05:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.zeldman.com/?p=3506#comment-51821</guid>
		<description>This is a crazily thought-provoking post Jeffrey, one of those things
that never even crossed my mind.

@Jay is there even such a thing as a &quot;static&quot; version of a site any
more? Ajax, photos from Flickr, videos embedded from YouTube, etc
etc...

I think if we are looking to do this realistically on a large scale, we need to accept that there are limitations. Saving a web page in its entirety, with all the links still pointing to the same places and everything appearing in the same context as the day it was published, isn&#039;t realistically possible at the moment on a very large scale. 

But just because we don&#039;t have the original moon landing tapes doesn&#039;t mean we didn&#039;t manage to save the gist of it. 

I don&#039;t think we need to look for a silver bullet. Nobody set up a central repository for every book, artwork or piece of music ever created. We just saved what we could, where we could, how we could, and ended up with the pretty decent collection we have today. So let&#039;s just start preserving what we can.

&lt;strong&gt;My suggestion: A print journal. &lt;/strong&gt;
Right now I can think of 5 or 10 blog posts from the last month or so that have been very influential, but now they&#039;ve disappeared down my feed reader somewhere and I&#039;ll most likely never look at them again. 

What if we had a regular magazine to publish those articles in print form, with the author&#039;s permission, to survive for as long as anything else in print (i.e. a long time.)

If we want to preserve the design we could basically take a screenshot of a page and print it. 
Not worried about the design? Just print the article text and images. 
Video or audio required to get the full experience? Throw it on a CD and include it with every issue.
We could even get creative with the format (rather than a normal magazine, how about preserving the format and printing the whole thing on one long scroll!)

&lt;strong&gt;Some issues:&lt;/strong&gt;
&lt;em&gt;People would need to buy the thing.&lt;/em&gt;
It doesn&#039;t need to make money, just cover the costs of printing and freight. I&#039;d subscribe. Hopefully someone else would. There are enough universities teaching web design now to warrant an industry journal subscription, just like they have in every other area of academia.

&lt;em&gt;You can&#039;t replicate the full web page experience on paper.&lt;/em&gt;
True, but you can preserve the gist of the content. Which is better than nothing at all.

&lt;em&gt;There&#039;s too much content out there to preserve this way.&lt;/em&gt;
True, but again, it&#039;s better than preserving nothing at all. We don&#039;t have every single piece of writing from 2000 years ago, but we do have some of the things that people back then thought most important to preserve and reproduce. 

&lt;em&gt;Who gets to choose what&#039;s printed?&lt;/em&gt;
I don&#039;t know. Maybe it&#039;s purely a voting thing, maybe it&#039;s up to a committee of industry heavyweights, maybe it&#039;s up to a single editor. Not everyone will be happy, but Nature doesn&#039;t publish every single science project on the planet. That doesn&#039;t make it any less valuable. 

Like I said, this isn&#039;t a silver bullet, but I think it could be a start. Anyone keen to work on this?

(Apologies for the novel of a comment, Jeffrey)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is a crazily thought-provoking post Jeffrey, one of those things<br />
that never even crossed my mind.</p>
<p>@Jay is there even such a thing as a &#8220;static&#8221; version of a site any<br />
more? Ajax, photos from Flickr, videos embedded from YouTube, etc<br />
etc&#8230;</p>
<p>I think if we are looking to do this realistically on a large scale, we need to accept that there are limitations. Saving a web page in its entirety, with all the links still pointing to the same places and everything appearing in the same context as the day it was published, isn&#8217;t realistically possible at the moment on a very large scale. </p>
<p>But just because we don&#8217;t have the original moon landing tapes doesn&#8217;t mean we didn&#8217;t manage to save the gist of it. </p>
<p>I don&#8217;t think we need to look for a silver bullet. Nobody set up a central repository for every book, artwork or piece of music ever created. We just saved what we could, where we could, how we could, and ended up with the pretty decent collection we have today. So let&#8217;s just start preserving what we can.</p>
<p><strong>My suggestion: A print journal. </strong><br />
Right now I can think of 5 or 10 blog posts from the last month or so that have been very influential, but now they&#8217;ve disappeared down my feed reader somewhere and I&#8217;ll most likely never look at them again. </p>
<p>What if we had a regular magazine to publish those articles in print form, with the author&#8217;s permission, to survive for as long as anything else in print (i.e. a long time.)</p>
<p>If we want to preserve the design we could basically take a screenshot of a page and print it.<br />
Not worried about the design? Just print the article text and images.<br />
Video or audio required to get the full experience? Throw it on a CD and include it with every issue.<br />
We could even get creative with the format (rather than a normal magazine, how about preserving the format and printing the whole thing on one long scroll!)</p>
<p><strong>Some issues:</strong><br />
<em>People would need to buy the thing.</em><br />
It doesn&#8217;t need to make money, just cover the costs of printing and freight. I&#8217;d subscribe. Hopefully someone else would. There are enough universities teaching web design now to warrant an industry journal subscription, just like they have in every other area of academia.</p>
<p><em>You can&#8217;t replicate the full web page experience on paper.</em><br />
True, but you can preserve the gist of the content. Which is better than nothing at all.</p>
<p><em>There&#8217;s too much content out there to preserve this way.</em><br />
True, but again, it&#8217;s better than preserving nothing at all. We don&#8217;t have every single piece of writing from 2000 years ago, but we do have some of the things that people back then thought most important to preserve and reproduce. </p>
<p><em>Who gets to choose what&#8217;s printed?</em><br />
I don&#8217;t know. Maybe it&#8217;s purely a voting thing, maybe it&#8217;s up to a committee of industry heavyweights, maybe it&#8217;s up to a single editor. Not everyone will be happy, but Nature doesn&#8217;t publish every single science project on the planet. That doesn&#8217;t make it any less valuable. </p>
<p>Like I said, this isn&#8217;t a silver bullet, but I think it could be a start. Anyone keen to work on this?</p>
<p>(Apologies for the novel of a comment, Jeffrey)</p>
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		<title>By: Suramya&#8217;s Blog &#187; Posthumous Hosting and making yourself heard after you die</title>
		<link>http://www.zeldman.com/2010/01/21/posthumous-hosting-and-digital-culture/#comment-51816</link>
		<dc:creator>Suramya&#8217;s Blog &#187; Posthumous Hosting and making yourself heard after you die</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 Jan 2010 18:09:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.zeldman.com/?p=3506#comment-51816</guid>
		<description>[...] was reading this blog post on Posthumous Hosting and it started me thinking (Yeah, I know&#8230; dangerous stuff). Once a [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] was reading this blog post on Posthumous Hosting and it started me thinking (Yeah, I know&#8230; dangerous stuff). Once a [...]</p>
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		<title>By: buy r4ds</title>
		<link>http://www.zeldman.com/2010/01/21/posthumous-hosting-and-digital-culture/#comment-51814</link>
		<dc:creator>buy r4ds</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 Jan 2010 10:20:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.zeldman.com/?p=3506#comment-51814</guid>
		<description>Thank you for such an amazing post. I have been researching and speaking about death and digital legacy for almost a year and, although, I had extrapolated that this type of scenario might occur between a family and an online friend&#039;s community, Leslie&#039;s is the first tangible evidence of this happening that I&#039;ve come across. I would very much like to speak with you privately about your experience, and if appropriate, speak about Leslie and this scenario in my talks. Please feel free to contact me directly by email at your convenience.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank you for such an amazing post. I have been researching and speaking about death and digital legacy for almost a year and, although, I had extrapolated that this type of scenario might occur between a family and an online friend&#8217;s community, Leslie&#8217;s is the first tangible evidence of this happening that I&#8217;ve come across. I would very much like to speak with you privately about your experience, and if appropriate, speak about Leslie and this scenario in my talks. Please feel free to contact me directly by email at your convenience.</p>
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		<title>By: Jeffrey Zeldman</title>
		<link>http://www.zeldman.com/2010/01/21/posthumous-hosting-and-digital-culture/#comment-51812</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeffrey Zeldman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Jan 2010 16:24:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.zeldman.com/?p=3506#comment-51812</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;I would assume that other national libraries do the same?&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Not in America, anyway.  :(</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>I would assume that other national libraries do the same?</p></blockquote>
<p>Not in America, anyway.  :(</p>
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		<title>By: Martin Kliehm</title>
		<link>http://www.zeldman.com/2010/01/21/posthumous-hosting-and-digital-culture/#comment-51810</link>
		<dc:creator>Martin Kliehm</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Jan 2010 09:56:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.zeldman.com/?p=3506#comment-51810</guid>
		<description>I&#039;d rather have my websites stick around for a while. Actually I ended up hosting several sites for friends and small projects, and they all would be gone when I die. But I&#039;m switching to WordPress MU, aggregating all the sites in one system. So if my friends keep maintaining their sites, my site will be just another one in the database -- given that somebody can afford the 6 € per year for the domain registration.

Apart from that at least the German National Library has a program to &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.d-nb.de/eng/netzpub/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;archive digital material&lt;/a&gt; one can actively contribute to, I would assume that other national libraries do the same?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;d rather have my websites stick around for a while. Actually I ended up hosting several sites for friends and small projects, and they all would be gone when I die. But I&#8217;m switching to WordPress MU, aggregating all the sites in one system. So if my friends keep maintaining their sites, my site will be just another one in the database &#8212; given that somebody can afford the 6 € per year for the domain registration.</p>
<p>Apart from that at least the German National Library has a program to <a href="http://www.d-nb.de/eng/netzpub/" rel="nofollow">archive digital material</a> one can actively contribute to, I would assume that other national libraries do the same?</p>
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		<title>By: Het verlies van digitale herinneringen</title>
		<link>http://www.zeldman.com/2010/01/21/posthumous-hosting-and-digital-culture/#comment-51809</link>
		<dc:creator>Het verlies van digitale herinneringen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Jan 2010 09:50:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.zeldman.com/?p=3506#comment-51809</guid>
		<description>[...] Nederlandse sites te gaan archiveren, een nobel initiatief wat ik toejuich! Maar lees ook eens dit verhaal van Jeffrey Zeldman eens over postmortem hosting, vergeet daarbij ook niet de zeer inzichtelijke en [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Nederlandse sites te gaan archiveren, een nobel initiatief wat ik toejuich! Maar lees ook eens dit verhaal van Jeffrey Zeldman eens over postmortem hosting, vergeet daarbij ook niet de zeer inzichtelijke en [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Frank Meeuwsen</title>
		<link>http://www.zeldman.com/2010/01/21/posthumous-hosting-and-digital-culture/#comment-51808</link>
		<dc:creator>Frank Meeuwsen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Jan 2010 09:29:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.zeldman.com/?p=3506#comment-51808</guid>
		<description>I am currently working on a book on the history of the Dutch blogosphere and it is shocking to see how much great information is actually gone after a period of just 10 years. It is wonderfull to see we can read books from 500 years ago. Books, from paper, which is conserved in a scientific way by experts. But digital content wasn&#039;t that important in the early days I think? Also, changes in hostingprovider, weblogsoftware, domainnames, give way to a breakable web. Which is really a shame. 
One more thing, why hasn&#039;t anyone mentioned Archive.org and the Wayback machine? These have been really important for my research and writing and I feel we should see more (local/national) intiatives like these. Perhaps some sort of P2P archiving network? I love the idea of Evan with the domestic data hubs and society/government giving access to unlimited storage.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am currently working on a book on the history of the Dutch blogosphere and it is shocking to see how much great information is actually gone after a period of just 10 years. It is wonderfull to see we can read books from 500 years ago. Books, from paper, which is conserved in a scientific way by experts. But digital content wasn&#8217;t that important in the early days I think? Also, changes in hostingprovider, weblogsoftware, domainnames, give way to a breakable web. Which is really a shame.<br />
One more thing, why hasn&#8217;t anyone mentioned Archive.org and the Wayback machine? These have been really important for my research and writing and I feel we should see more (local/national) intiatives like these. Perhaps some sort of P2P archiving network? I love the idea of Evan with the domestic data hubs and society/government giving access to unlimited storage.</p>
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		<title>By: Alex</title>
		<link>http://www.zeldman.com/2010/01/21/posthumous-hosting-and-digital-culture/#comment-51805</link>
		<dc:creator>Alex</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 Jan 2010 23:15:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.zeldman.com/?p=3506#comment-51805</guid>
		<description>Practical example. British hacker, blogger, founder of &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.mysociety.org/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;MySociety&lt;/a&gt; and &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.openrightsgroup.org/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;ORG&lt;/a&gt;, Chris Lightfoot died unexpectedly in 2007. Some of us could tell when because the referrals from the RSS aggregator script he had on his home server stopped.

Mythic Beasts Ltd., his hosting provider and ISP, where most of MySociety and ORG are still based, undertook to keep the entirety of his work &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.ex-parrot.com/~chris/wwwitter/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;online&lt;/a&gt;. This isn&#039;t a generic solution, though; he started Mythic Beasts...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Practical example. British hacker, blogger, founder of <a href="http://www.mysociety.org/" rel="nofollow">MySociety</a> and <a href="http://www.openrightsgroup.org/" rel="nofollow">ORG</a>, Chris Lightfoot died unexpectedly in 2007. Some of us could tell when because the referrals from the RSS aggregator script he had on his home server stopped.</p>
<p>Mythic Beasts Ltd., his hosting provider and ISP, where most of MySociety and ORG are still based, undertook to keep the entirety of his work <a href="http://www.ex-parrot.com/~chris/wwwitter/" rel="nofollow">online</a>. This isn&#8217;t a generic solution, though; he started Mythic Beasts&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Jeffrey Zeldman</title>
		<link>http://www.zeldman.com/2010/01/21/posthumous-hosting-and-digital-culture/#comment-51804</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeffrey Zeldman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 Jan 2010 22:43:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.zeldman.com/?p=3506#comment-51804</guid>
		<description>Evan, that is a fascinating idea.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Evan, that is a fascinating idea.</p>
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		<title>By: Evan Skuthorpe</title>
		<link>http://www.zeldman.com/2010/01/21/posthumous-hosting-and-digital-culture/#comment-51803</link>
		<dc:creator>Evan Skuthorpe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 Jan 2010 16:22:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.zeldman.com/?p=3506#comment-51803</guid>
		<description>I see web hosting going the way of email. That is to say; free and unlimited. It will happen, there&#039;ll be no need to charge as storage will become a given of society as with street lighting, the internet and air pressure pumps in petrol stations.

Or...

It&#039;s all part of the wireless future with everyone having their own data hub in the household. Computers and such will no longer hold data but a central &#039;server&#039; of information, if you will, will become the next digital revolution. Tie this in with cross/backward compatible file formats and the world will truely be connected...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I see web hosting going the way of email. That is to say; free and unlimited. It will happen, there&#8217;ll be no need to charge as storage will become a given of society as with street lighting, the internet and air pressure pumps in petrol stations.</p>
<p>Or&#8230;</p>
<p>It&#8217;s all part of the wireless future with everyone having their own data hub in the household. Computers and such will no longer hold data but a central &#8216;server&#8217; of information, if you will, will become the next digital revolution. Tie this in with cross/backward compatible file formats and the world will truely be connected&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Jeffrey Zeldman</title>
		<link>http://www.zeldman.com/2010/01/21/posthumous-hosting-and-digital-culture/#comment-51802</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeffrey Zeldman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 Jan 2010 13:47:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.zeldman.com/?p=3506#comment-51802</guid>
		<description>@Derek K. Miller:

Thank you.

And, I&#039;m so sorry.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Derek K. Miller:</p>
<p>Thank you.</p>
<p>And, I&#8217;m so sorry.</p>
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