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	<title>Comments on: The Stars Look Down</title>
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	<link>http://www.zeldman.com/2009/12/06/the-stars-look-down/</link>
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		<title>By: One of the most important things I read in 2009 [Legends of the Sun Pig - Martin Sutherland's Blog]</title>
		<link>http://www.zeldman.com/2009/12/06/the-stars-look-down/#comment-51610</link>
		<dc:creator>One of the most important things I read in 2009 [Legends of the Sun Pig - Martin Sutherland's Blog]</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 11 Jan 2010 03:59:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.zeldman.com/?p=3198#comment-51610</guid>
		<description>&lt;!--%kramer-ref-pre%--&gt;[...] Dean Allen commenting over on Zeldman&#039;s site during the discussion of why he shut down Favrd: [...]&lt;!--%kramer-ref-post%--&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!--%kramer-ref-pre%-->[...] Dean Allen commenting over on Zeldman&#39;s site during the discussion of why he shut down Favrd: [...]<!--%kramer-ref-post%--></p>
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		<title>By: DCStrain</title>
		<link>http://www.zeldman.com/2009/12/06/the-stars-look-down/#comment-51520</link>
		<dc:creator>DCStrain</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 Jan 2010 08:43:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.zeldman.com/?p=3198#comment-51520</guid>
		<description>A few thoughts....

1. Considering the impact of losing one&#039;s community, there is not a nasty flame to be found in the comments; even the negative ones are written civil manner. -Is this a reflection of the Favrd community -- if so, that is a great accomplishment in itself.

2. The discussion on this blog could not have taken place if Favrd was still in operation. Or to put it another way:: &quot;you may can speculate how you &#039;might&#039; feel to have one of your legs whacked off -- but you can not &#039;really-know&#039; -- until you have one of your legs whacked off for real.&quot;

3. I think both sides of the &quot;close-Favrd&quot; / &quot;don&#039;t-close-Favrd&quot; issue have equal value; the arguments presented here reflect that. Sometimes it is hard to see the the value both sides of an issue; -it is difficult to ignore our emotional center -- and it is impossible -- if all of our beliefs are an end product of emotional filtering. 

4. This comment posed by &#039;navanax&#039; on 23 December 2009 at 6:03 pm earns my utmost respect. It is brief, concise, and sincere:

&gt;&gt;&gt;
&quot;Thank you Z for providing a place for this wonderful discussion.

I would like to take advantage of this space to thank Dean Allen for creating and providing such a great site, for as long as he did.

I admire someone who uses their creative talents to provide such a wonderful entertainment that people were brought together and community(s) were formed around it.

May your future endeavors be so successful.

Cheers.&quot;
&lt;&lt;&lt;

Isn&#039;t that wonderful... doesn&#039;t that make all of us feel good inside. 

&quot;But doesn&#039;t the poster have personal feelings about the &#039;decision&#039; to close Favrd?&quot; -Of course. 
&quot;Why were they not posted here?&quot; -Perhaps the poster&#039;s positive feelings far outweighed the negative ones; maybe the poster is just a polite person; perhaps the poster believes a person should not be criticized for their possible failures at the same time they are being patted on the back of their accomplishments. 
&quot;Do we have to figure out the motives of considerate people?&quot; -No we do not -- but we can ask ourselves, &quot;How do we measure up to their example&quot;.

Well, as Dean said, &quot;Gosh this got long.&quot;

Regards,
DCStrain
(...oh...and yes, I have had my leg whacked off ;-)

dennis_strain (at) hotmail (dot) com</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A few thoughts&#8230;.</p>
<p>1. Considering the impact of losing one&#8217;s community, there is not a nasty flame to be found in the comments; even the negative ones are written civil manner. -Is this a reflection of the Favrd community &#8212; if so, that is a great accomplishment in itself.</p>
<p>2. The discussion on this blog could not have taken place if Favrd was still in operation. Or to put it another way:: &#8220;you may can speculate how you &#8216;might&#8217; feel to have one of your legs whacked off &#8212; but you can not &#8216;really-know&#8217; &#8212; until you have one of your legs whacked off for real.&#8221;</p>
<p>3. I think both sides of the &#8220;close-Favrd&#8221; / &#8220;don&#8217;t-close-Favrd&#8221; issue have equal value; the arguments presented here reflect that. Sometimes it is hard to see the the value both sides of an issue; -it is difficult to ignore our emotional center &#8212; and it is impossible &#8212; if all of our beliefs are an end product of emotional filtering. </p>
<p>4. This comment posed by &#8216;navanax&#8217; on 23 December 2009 at 6:03 pm earns my utmost respect. It is brief, concise, and sincere:</p>
<p>&gt;&gt;&gt;<br />
&#8220;Thank you Z for providing a place for this wonderful discussion.</p>
<p>I would like to take advantage of this space to thank Dean Allen for creating and providing such a great site, for as long as he did.</p>
<p>I admire someone who uses their creative talents to provide such a wonderful entertainment that people were brought together and community(s) were formed around it.</p>
<p>May your future endeavors be so successful.</p>
<p>Cheers.&#8221;<br />
&lt;&lt;&lt;</p>
<p>Isn&#039;t that wonderful&#8230; doesn&#039;t that make all of us feel good inside. </p>
<p>&quot;But doesn&#039;t the poster have personal feelings about the &#039;decision&#039; to close Favrd?&quot; -Of course.<br />
&quot;Why were they not posted here?&quot; -Perhaps the poster&#039;s positive feelings far outweighed the negative ones; maybe the poster is just a polite person; perhaps the poster believes a person should not be criticized for their possible failures at the same time they are being patted on the back of their accomplishments.<br />
&quot;Do we have to figure out the motives of considerate people?&quot; -No we do not &#8212; but we can ask ourselves, &quot;How do we measure up to their example&quot;.</p>
<p>Well, as Dean said, &quot;Gosh this got long.&quot;</p>
<p>Regards,<br />
DCStrain<br />
(&#8230;oh&#8230;and yes, I have had my leg whacked off ;-)</p>
<p>dennis_strain (at) hotmail (dot) com</p>
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		<title>By: WSPR: Dean Allen on philosophy of self</title>
		<link>http://www.zeldman.com/2009/12/06/the-stars-look-down/#comment-51353</link>
		<dc:creator>WSPR: Dean Allen on philosophy of self</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Dec 2009 22:02:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.zeldman.com/?p=3198#comment-51353</guid>
		<description>&lt;!--%kramer-ref-pre%--&gt;[...] explaining something he did about something he made, Dean Allen [...]&lt;!--%kramer-ref-post%--&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!--%kramer-ref-pre%-->[...] explaining something he did about something he made, Dean Allen [...]<!--%kramer-ref-post%--></p>
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		<title>By: Twitter Tripe &#187; Another View of Favrd</title>
		<link>http://www.zeldman.com/2009/12/06/the-stars-look-down/#comment-51196</link>
		<dc:creator>Twitter Tripe &#187; Another View of Favrd</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Dec 2009 12:47:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.zeldman.com/?p=3198#comment-51196</guid>
		<description>[...] posted these comments on Jeffrey Zeldman&#8217;s blog and thought I&#8217;d save it here before he deletes it or bans me from posting comments. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] posted these comments on Jeffrey Zeldman&#8217;s blog and thought I&#8217;d save it here before he deletes it or bans me from posting comments. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: joesmithreally</title>
		<link>http://www.zeldman.com/2009/12/06/the-stars-look-down/#comment-51183</link>
		<dc:creator>joesmithreally</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Dec 2009 23:55:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.zeldman.com/?p=3198#comment-51183</guid>
		<description>I do not recognize the meaning of the word community as it&#039;s used in this thread. Just think about what community is to y&#039;all, just a little bit. Really. Ben Darlow pointd out the inherent flaw in Favrd succinctly:

&quot;The whole leaderboard dynamic was clearly a false-starter. As soon as you start to quantify the value of something as inherently subjective as written language it was always going to get silly buggers running around trying to game it; that’s human nature (i.e. lots of people are asshats). But I would argue focusing on the number of favourites any given tweet may accrue isn’t and should never have been a visible part of the workings of the site.&quot;

How would a daily leaderboard NOT create a competition and provide the conditions for the very same creatures Cameron now denigrates? C&#039;mon. Seriously. Can anyone say myopic? 

Now the whole &quot;community&quot; clusters around Favstar and whatever the next site is. Systems may change, but people remain unspectacularly the same. 

That&#039;s the only sad part of this fiasco -- not the loss Favrd, not the angst and  silent suffering of St. Dean Cameron Allen, kind and generous genius, the Jesus who had to sacrifice himself for the sins of the unwashed masses.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I do not recognize the meaning of the word community as it&#8217;s used in this thread. Just think about what community is to y&#8217;all, just a little bit. Really. Ben Darlow pointd out the inherent flaw in Favrd succinctly:</p>
<p>&#8220;The whole leaderboard dynamic was clearly a false-starter. As soon as you start to quantify the value of something as inherently subjective as written language it was always going to get silly buggers running around trying to game it; that’s human nature (i.e. lots of people are asshats). But I would argue focusing on the number of favourites any given tweet may accrue isn’t and should never have been a visible part of the workings of the site.&#8221;</p>
<p>How would a daily leaderboard NOT create a competition and provide the conditions for the very same creatures Cameron now denigrates? C&#8217;mon. Seriously. Can anyone say myopic? </p>
<p>Now the whole &#8220;community&#8221; clusters around Favstar and whatever the next site is. Systems may change, but people remain unspectacularly the same. </p>
<p>That&#8217;s the only sad part of this fiasco &#8212; not the loss Favrd, not the angst and  silent suffering of St. Dean Cameron Allen, kind and generous genius, the Jesus who had to sacrifice himself for the sins of the unwashed masses.</p>
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		<title>By: navanax</title>
		<link>http://www.zeldman.com/2009/12/06/the-stars-look-down/#comment-51182</link>
		<dc:creator>navanax</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Dec 2009 23:03:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.zeldman.com/?p=3198#comment-51182</guid>
		<description>Thank you Z for providing a place for this wonderful discussion.

I would like to take advantage of this space to thank Dean Allen for creating and providing such a great site, for as long as he did.

I admire someone who uses their creative talents to provide such a wonderful entertainment that people were brought together and community(s) were formed around it.

May your future endeavors be so successful.

Cheers.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank you Z for providing a place for this wonderful discussion.</p>
<p>I would like to take advantage of this space to thank Dean Allen for creating and providing such a great site, for as long as he did.</p>
<p>I admire someone who uses their creative talents to provide such a wonderful entertainment that people were brought together and community(s) were formed around it.</p>
<p>May your future endeavors be so successful.</p>
<p>Cheers.</p>
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		<title>By: When stars collide - goldengateblond</title>
		<link>http://www.zeldman.com/2009/12/06/the-stars-look-down/#comment-51178</link>
		<dc:creator>When stars collide - goldengateblond</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Dec 2009 21:52:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.zeldman.com/?p=3198#comment-51178</guid>
		<description>&lt;!--%kramer-ref-pre%--&gt;[...] certain size, the owners no longer really own them. My friend @zeldman made this comment after his post about Favrd pulling the [...]&lt;!--%kramer-ref-post%--&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!--%kramer-ref-pre%-->[...] certain size, the owners no longer really own them. My friend @zeldman made this comment after his post about Favrd pulling the [...]<!--%kramer-ref-post%--></p>
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		<title>By: Andrew Hyde</title>
		<link>http://www.zeldman.com/2009/12/06/the-stars-look-down/#comment-51124</link>
		<dc:creator>Andrew Hyde</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Dec 2009 18:15:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.zeldman.com/?p=3198#comment-51124</guid>
		<description>It has taken me a few weeks to comment on this post.  Part of me wishes that by ignoring it being gone, it will just come back.

I still get to see my friends, I still get to give them props for their post, I still get to contribute to a community... but it feels like a forced family reunion trying to replicate what once was.  

Just wanted to say I miss it, and thank everyone for making it brilliant.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It has taken me a few weeks to comment on this post.  Part of me wishes that by ignoring it being gone, it will just come back.</p>
<p>I still get to see my friends, I still get to give them props for their post, I still get to contribute to a community&#8230; but it feels like a forced family reunion trying to replicate what once was.  </p>
<p>Just wanted to say I miss it, and thank everyone for making it brilliant.</p>
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		<title>By: Dean Allen elaborates on why he shut down Favrd - Andy Baio - FriendFeed</title>
		<link>http://www.zeldman.com/2009/12/06/the-stars-look-down/#comment-51091</link>
		<dc:creator>Dean Allen elaborates on why he shut down Favrd - Andy Baio - FriendFeed</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 19 Dec 2009 18:23:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.zeldman.com/?p=3198#comment-51091</guid>
		<description>&lt;!--%kramer-ref-pre%--&gt;[...] FriendFeed                  Andy Baio  Dean Allen elaborates on why he shut down Favrd - http://www.zeldman.com/2009...    December 7 from Waxy.org Links - Comment - Like - Share      a peek into the dark and needy side [...]&lt;!--%kramer-ref-post%--&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!--%kramer-ref-pre%-->[...] FriendFeed                  Andy Baio  Dean Allen elaborates on why he shut down Favrd &#8211; <a href="http://www.zeldman.com/2009..">http://www.zeldman.com/2009..</a>.    December 7 from Waxy.org Links &#8211; Comment &#8211; Like &#8211; Share      a peek into the dark and needy side [...]<!--%kramer-ref-post%--></p>
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		<title>By: denise</title>
		<link>http://www.zeldman.com/2009/12/06/the-stars-look-down/#comment-51042</link>
		<dc:creator>denise</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Dec 2009 01:04:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.zeldman.com/?p=3198#comment-51042</guid>
		<description>it&#039;s incorrect to say that dean took away people&#039;s opportunity to be creative. twitter still exists and everyone can still keep making their jokes. perhaps twitter needs a way to surface those jokes. isn&#039;t that what lists are for? all dean took away was the popularity index or instant gratification.

any social media - blogs, forums, communities, twitter, facebook - they are all ego fueled. always have been. there&#039;s a pay off or people wouldn&#039;t participate. twitter is so telling. one person i follow is very insecure and constantly uses twitter to portray herself as desirable to men because she knows her ex reads her stream. i had to unfollow one person because while his tweets were very funny, there was an air of desperation to them. he really needs people to like his jokes, to the point of offering prizes if he received more stars than one of his friends. then there are the travelers - always complaining about flights and airports and weather - but the subtext is &quot;someone thinks i&#039;m important enough to fly me around the country&quot;. it&#039;s a fascinating study.

dean is just maintaining his personal integrity. he&#039;s listening to his internal voice which is the only one that matters.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>it&#8217;s incorrect to say that dean took away people&#8217;s opportunity to be creative. twitter still exists and everyone can still keep making their jokes. perhaps twitter needs a way to surface those jokes. isn&#8217;t that what lists are for? all dean took away was the popularity index or instant gratification.</p>
<p>any social media &#8211; blogs, forums, communities, twitter, facebook &#8211; they are all ego fueled. always have been. there&#8217;s a pay off or people wouldn&#8217;t participate. twitter is so telling. one person i follow is very insecure and constantly uses twitter to portray herself as desirable to men because she knows her ex reads her stream. i had to unfollow one person because while his tweets were very funny, there was an air of desperation to them. he really needs people to like his jokes, to the point of offering prizes if he received more stars than one of his friends. then there are the travelers &#8211; always complaining about flights and airports and weather &#8211; but the subtext is &#8220;someone thinks i&#8217;m important enough to fly me around the country&#8221;. it&#8217;s a fascinating study.</p>
<p>dean is just maintaining his personal integrity. he&#8217;s listening to his internal voice which is the only one that matters.</p>
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		<title>By: Brandt's Tumbling Log</title>
		<link>http://www.zeldman.com/2009/12/06/the-stars-look-down/#comment-51030</link>
		<dc:creator>Brandt's Tumbling Log</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Dec 2009 16:18:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.zeldman.com/?p=3198#comment-51030</guid>
		<description>&lt;!--%kramer-ref-pre%--&gt;[...] 15   &#147;like headlines from The Onion without all the lorem ipsum underneath&#148; Dean Allen comments on Zeldman&#8217;s The Stars Look Down   Posted at 1:10pm Permalink &#8734;       Page 1 of [...]&lt;!--%kramer-ref-post%--&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!--%kramer-ref-pre%-->[...] 15   &#8220;like headlines from The Onion without all the lorem ipsum underneath&#8221; Dean Allen comments on Zeldman&#8217;s The Stars Look Down   Posted at 1:10pm Permalink &#8734;       Page 1 of [...]<!--%kramer-ref-post%--></p>
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		<title>By: Pants: Pants McCracky Is Not Here</title>
		<link>http://www.zeldman.com/2009/12/06/the-stars-look-down/#comment-51027</link>
		<dc:creator>Pants: Pants McCracky Is Not Here</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Dec 2009 13:01:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.zeldman.com/?p=3198#comment-51027</guid>
		<description>&lt;!--%kramer-ref-pre%--&gt;[...] Dean Allen, shut down the site, citing his increasing discomfort with the idea of, as he put it, &quot;authoritative judgement as fuel for creativity and wit.&quot; Favrd, much like Twitter itself, had grown from an amusing curiosity to a big, bustling community [...]&lt;!--%kramer-ref-post%--&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!--%kramer-ref-pre%-->[...] Dean Allen, shut down the site, citing his increasing discomfort with the idea of, as he put it, &quot;authoritative judgement as fuel for creativity and wit.&quot; Favrd, much like Twitter itself, had grown from an amusing curiosity to a big, bustling community [...]<!--%kramer-ref-post%--></p>
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		<title>By: Deprecated</title>
		<link>http://www.zeldman.com/2009/12/06/the-stars-look-down/#comment-51006</link>
		<dc:creator>Deprecated</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Dec 2009 19:00:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.zeldman.com/?p=3198#comment-51006</guid>
		<description>[...] disappeared two Sundays ago, and, boy, my pals were sore.  Read the comments.  And maybe Ryan&#8217;s take.  And Mike&#8217;s. As an aesthetic move, I [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] disappeared two Sundays ago, and, boy, my pals were sore.  Read the comments.  And maybe Ryan&#8217;s take.  And Mike&#8217;s. As an aesthetic move, I [...]</p>
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		<title>By: m. migurski / snippets</title>
		<link>http://www.zeldman.com/2009/12/06/the-stars-look-down/#comment-50971</link>
		<dc:creator>m. migurski / snippets</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 13 Dec 2009 12:57:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.zeldman.com/?p=3198#comment-50971</guid>
		<description>&lt;!--%kramer-ref-pre%--&gt;[...]  [...]&lt;!--%kramer-ref-post%--&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!--%kramer-ref-pre%-->[...]  [...]<!--%kramer-ref-post%--></p>
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		<title>By: Competition and Community - Meme, Myself and I</title>
		<link>http://www.zeldman.com/2009/12/06/the-stars-look-down/#comment-50942</link>
		<dc:creator>Competition and Community - Meme, Myself and I</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 12 Dec 2009 08:17:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.zeldman.com/?p=3198#comment-50942</guid>
		<description>&lt;!--%kramer-ref-pre%--&gt;[...] totally willing to admit that I misinterpreted you, but that&#8217;s certainly the argument that Dean made on Zeldman&#8217;s site. The two unifying threads of all of these past &#8220;honor classes&#8221; are that somebody [...]&lt;!--%kramer-ref-post%--&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!--%kramer-ref-pre%-->[...] totally willing to admit that I misinterpreted you, but that&#8217;s certainly the argument that Dean made on Zeldman&#8217;s site. The two unifying threads of all of these past &#8220;honor classes&#8221; are that somebody [...]<!--%kramer-ref-post%--></p>
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