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	<title>Comments on: Web standards secret sauce</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.zeldman.com/2009/07/12/web-standards-secret-sauce-webkit-in-iphone/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.zeldman.com/2009/07/12/web-standards-secret-sauce-webkit-in-iphone/</link>
	<description>Web design news and insights since 1995</description>
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		<title>By: Mancini Eleonora</title>
		<link>http://www.zeldman.com/2009/07/12/web-standards-secret-sauce-webkit-in-iphone/#comment-50301</link>
		<dc:creator>Mancini Eleonora</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Nov 2009 18:28:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.zeldman.com/?p=1624#comment-50301</guid>
		<description>Hi,

I would like to know what does &quot;secret sauce&quot; mean? Could you explain me it in other words??

Thank you very much

Eleonora</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi,</p>
<p>I would like to know what does &#8220;secret sauce&#8221; mean? Could you explain me it in other words??</p>
<p>Thank you very much</p>
<p>Eleonora</p>
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		<title>By: JanC</title>
		<link>http://www.zeldman.com/2009/07/12/web-standards-secret-sauce-webkit-in-iphone/#comment-48181</link>
		<dc:creator>JanC</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Sep 2009 03:38:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.zeldman.com/?p=1624#comment-48181</guid>
		<description>@Justen: there are several webkit-based browsers for linux, both for Gtk &amp; Qt-based environments, e.g.:
- Epiphany (default GNOME browser) can use both Gecko &amp; Webkit-Gtk as render engine
- Midori also uses Webkit-Gtk
- Arora uses QtWebkit &amp; will be the default browser in Kubuntu 9.10
- Rekonq is another QtWebkit-based browser
- Palm&#039;s WebOS browser is based on Webkit too (not sure which variant)
etc.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Justen: there are several webkit-based browsers for linux, both for Gtk &amp; Qt-based environments, e.g.:<br />
- Epiphany (default GNOME browser) can use both Gecko &amp; Webkit-Gtk as render engine<br />
- Midori also uses Webkit-Gtk<br />
- Arora uses QtWebkit &amp; will be the default browser in Kubuntu 9.10<br />
- Rekonq is another QtWebkit-based browser<br />
- Palm&#8217;s WebOS browser is based on Webkit too (not sure which variant)<br />
etc.</p>
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		<title>By: Happiness in Business</title>
		<link>http://www.zeldman.com/2009/07/12/web-standards-secret-sauce-webkit-in-iphone/#comment-47516</link>
		<dc:creator>Happiness in Business</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Aug 2009 22:24:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.zeldman.com/?p=1624#comment-47516</guid>
		<description>&lt;!--%kramer-ref-pre%--&gt;[...] das hier zu suchen hat? Alles! Lesen Sie den Artikel: So einfach wie nur geht! oder besuchen Sie Jeffrey Zeldman. Oder besuchen Sie Presentation Zen oder TED oder abonnieren deren [...]&lt;!--%kramer-ref-post%--&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!--%kramer-ref-pre%-->[...] das hier zu suchen hat? Alles! Lesen Sie den Artikel: So einfach wie nur geht! oder besuchen Sie Jeffrey Zeldman. Oder besuchen Sie Presentation Zen oder TED oder abonnieren deren [...]<!--%kramer-ref-post%--></p>
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		<title>By: Justen</title>
		<link>http://www.zeldman.com/2009/07/12/web-standards-secret-sauce-webkit-in-iphone/#comment-46774</link>
		<dc:creator>Justen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Aug 2009 09:51:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.zeldman.com/?p=1624#comment-46774</guid>
		<description>On windows users - come on, seriously. I think 75% of Windows users is a large enough portion to make a generalization about without whining or argument. I can also guarantee you that very few of those 75% make an informed choice to stick to IE. Before I was a developer I was a technician, and I spent much time converting clients to Firefox - who would almost always return to tell me how much they loved it. I can only think of a couple who tried it and went back to IE. Surprisingly, my quite-set-in-her-ways mom loved Firefox and she is as default as it gets.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>On windows users &#8211; come on, seriously. I think 75% of Windows users is a large enough portion to make a generalization about without whining or argument. I can also guarantee you that very few of those 75% make an informed choice to stick to IE. Before I was a developer I was a technician, and I spent much time converting clients to Firefox &#8211; who would almost always return to tell me how much they loved it. I can only think of a couple who tried it and went back to IE. Surprisingly, my quite-set-in-her-ways mom loved Firefox and she is as default as it gets.</p>
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		<title>By: Justen</title>
		<link>http://www.zeldman.com/2009/07/12/web-standards-secret-sauce-webkit-in-iphone/#comment-46773</link>
		<dc:creator>Justen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Aug 2009 09:40:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.zeldman.com/?p=1624#comment-46773</guid>
		<description>That&#039;s a really interesting take on the subject. The real head scratcher for me is not why Apple chose Webkit (I don&#039;t bother wondering why Apple does what it does, I just wait to see if they&#039;re right or crazy), but at this point why the Konqueror developers are still using KHTML. Correct me if I&#039;m wrong but there is to date no Webkit-based Linux browser (though Google did announce a Chrome port recently). As much as I love Firefox as a dev platform, Chrome is just an all around wonderful user experience... but I digress. Why not port Webkit back to Konqueror for an out-of-the-box brilliant rendering engine to go with the out-of-the-box brilliant window manager that is KDE? Installing, customizing, integrating, and removing the horrible default theme on Firefox is such a bother.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That&#8217;s a really interesting take on the subject. The real head scratcher for me is not why Apple chose Webkit (I don&#8217;t bother wondering why Apple does what it does, I just wait to see if they&#8217;re right or crazy), but at this point why the Konqueror developers are still using KHTML. Correct me if I&#8217;m wrong but there is to date no Webkit-based Linux browser (though Google did announce a Chrome port recently). As much as I love Firefox as a dev platform, Chrome is just an all around wonderful user experience&#8230; but I digress. Why not port Webkit back to Konqueror for an out-of-the-box brilliant rendering engine to go with the out-of-the-box brilliant window manager that is KDE? Installing, customizing, integrating, and removing the horrible default theme on Firefox is such a bother.</p>
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		<title>By: Nice Web Type likes Bello and Proxima Nova</title>
		<link>http://www.zeldman.com/2009/07/12/web-standards-secret-sauce-webkit-in-iphone/#comment-46054</link>
		<dc:creator>Nice Web Type likes Bello and Proxima Nova</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Jul 2009 18:11:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.zeldman.com/?p=1624#comment-46054</guid>
		<description>&lt;!--%kramer-ref-pre%--&gt;[...] are supported by at least one popular browser though, and that browser&#039;s mojo is advancing our craft faster than you can say, &#8220;IE went to Sturgis and all it got was this [...]&lt;!--%kramer-ref-post%--&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!--%kramer-ref-pre%-->[...] are supported by at least one popular browser though, and that browser&#39;s mojo is advancing our craft faster than you can say, &#8220;IE went to Sturgis and all it got was this [...]<!--%kramer-ref-post%--></p>
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		<title>By: Not so fast, net nerds &#8211; The Tea Makers</title>
		<link>http://www.zeldman.com/2009/07/12/web-standards-secret-sauce-webkit-in-iphone/#comment-45739</link>
		<dc:creator>Not so fast, net nerds &#8211; The Tea Makers</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Jul 2009 23:19:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.zeldman.com/?p=1624#comment-45739</guid>
		<description>&lt;!--%kramer-ref-pre%--&gt;[...] but probably not using handheld CSS, that functions on any mobile device? (Works for Flickr; ask Zeldman.) Why tie the future to one pod? And since it’s so hard to type on a small device, why isn’t [...]&lt;!--%kramer-ref-post%--&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!--%kramer-ref-pre%-->[...] but probably not using handheld CSS, that functions on any mobile device? (Works for Flickr; ask Zeldman.) Why tie the future to one pod? And since it’s so hard to type on a small device, why isn’t [...]<!--%kramer-ref-post%--></p>
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		<title>By: Rudolph Kawasaki</title>
		<link>http://www.zeldman.com/2009/07/12/web-standards-secret-sauce-webkit-in-iphone/#comment-45219</link>
		<dc:creator>Rudolph Kawasaki</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 18 Jul 2009 13:11:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.zeldman.com/?p=1624#comment-45219</guid>
		<description>I agree with your point, but while the &quot;out-of-the-ordinary-web-user&quot; thing may be true about Opera, Firefox is a somewhat different story: it has a pretty high user base, for an open source browser (around 20-25%, if i remember correctly): it&#039;s not a browser for web geeks only. A good number of &quot;normal&quot; windows users actively switched to Firefox mainly because they were fed up with security vulnerabilities in IE.
Sorry for attempting a nitpicking action :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree with your point, but while the &#8220;out-of-the-ordinary-web-user&#8221; thing may be true about Opera, Firefox is a somewhat different story: it has a pretty high user base, for an open source browser (around 20-25%, if i remember correctly): it&#8217;s not a browser for web geeks only. A good number of &#8220;normal&#8221; windows users actively switched to Firefox mainly because they were fed up with security vulnerabilities in IE.<br />
Sorry for attempting a nitpicking action :)</p>
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		<title>By: Jeffrey Zeldman</title>
		<link>http://www.zeldman.com/2009/07/12/web-standards-secret-sauce-webkit-in-iphone/#comment-44864</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeffrey Zeldman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Jul 2009 11:14:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.zeldman.com/?p=1624#comment-44864</guid>
		<description>@Steve:

I&#039;m sorry if my words distressed you. It was not my intention to malign Windows users. That would be like maligning most of humanity. 

My point was simply that for many people, Windows, &quot;the computer,&quot; and &quot;the internet&quot; all sort of blur together as a platform they use to achieve business and personal tasks—a platform they don&#039;t necessarily think about. Just like most of us who aren&#039;t entertainment professionals don&#039;t spend a great deal of energy thinking about, say, television. 

We may watch television, we may have favorite shows, favorite actors and news anchors, but we don&#039;t analyze the five acts of the story when we&#039;re watching a sitcom, and we respond emotionally to a close-up but don&#039;t analyze why the director cut to it. Screenwriters, filmmakers and film buffs are likely to watch TV analytically. The rest of us aren&#039;t. It&#039;s just not our job.

It&#039;s not over-generalizing to say people in the film industry likely watch TV in a different way than people outside that industry. It&#039;s not over-generalizing to say a user experience designer probably experiences problems on a website differently than a non-UX designer. And it&#039;s not over-generalizing to say that those who seek minority platforms and browsers have different agendas and different interest than those who do not seek them.  

Mozilla and Opera have always appealed to an out-of-the-ordinary web user. And because they do so, to a certain extent they preach to the converted—just as a blog post about web standards is read almost exclusively by people who already care about web standards.

People who enjoy their browser and OS don&#039;t have a compelling reason to try a different browser. But they may well encounter a different browser when it&#039;s time to replace their smart phone. Those who pick up an iPhone will experience Webkit, the open source, standards-compliant browser that powers  Mobile Safari, AKA the web on iPhone. 

It was that point which I intended to make in my post. If through some clumsiness of word choice I led some readers to infer that I disrespect any group of people based on the computer they use, I regret the inadvertent transgression.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Steve:</p>
<p>I&#8217;m sorry if my words distressed you. It was not my intention to malign Windows users. That would be like maligning most of humanity. </p>
<p>My point was simply that for many people, Windows, &#8220;the computer,&#8221; and &#8220;the internet&#8221; all sort of blur together as a platform they use to achieve business and personal tasks—a platform they don&#8217;t necessarily think about. Just like most of us who aren&#8217;t entertainment professionals don&#8217;t spend a great deal of energy thinking about, say, television. </p>
<p>We may watch television, we may have favorite shows, favorite actors and news anchors, but we don&#8217;t analyze the five acts of the story when we&#8217;re watching a sitcom, and we respond emotionally to a close-up but don&#8217;t analyze why the director cut to it. Screenwriters, filmmakers and film buffs are likely to watch TV analytically. The rest of us aren&#8217;t. It&#8217;s just not our job.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s not over-generalizing to say people in the film industry likely watch TV in a different way than people outside that industry. It&#8217;s not over-generalizing to say a user experience designer probably experiences problems on a website differently than a non-UX designer. And it&#8217;s not over-generalizing to say that those who seek minority platforms and browsers have different agendas and different interest than those who do not seek them.  </p>
<p>Mozilla and Opera have always appealed to an out-of-the-ordinary web user. And because they do so, to a certain extent they preach to the converted—just as a blog post about web standards is read almost exclusively by people who already care about web standards.</p>
<p>People who enjoy their browser and OS don&#8217;t have a compelling reason to try a different browser. But they may well encounter a different browser when it&#8217;s time to replace their smart phone. Those who pick up an iPhone will experience Webkit, the open source, standards-compliant browser that powers  Mobile Safari, AKA the web on iPhone. </p>
<p>It was that point which I intended to make in my post. If through some clumsiness of word choice I led some readers to infer that I disrespect any group of people based on the computer they use, I regret the inadvertent transgression.</p>
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		<title>By: Steve</title>
		<link>http://www.zeldman.com/2009/07/12/web-standards-secret-sauce-webkit-in-iphone/#comment-44805</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Jul 2009 00:07:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.zeldman.com/?p=1624#comment-44805</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;I said most normal people don’t waste brain cells thinking about user experience, operating systems, or browsers. &lt;/blockquote&gt;

You never said normal people, you said &quot;Windows&quot; users.  Twice in fact.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>I said most normal people don’t waste brain cells thinking about user experience, operating systems, or browsers. </p></blockquote>
<p>You never said normal people, you said &#8220;Windows&#8221; users.  Twice in fact.</p>
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		<title>By: bayrak</title>
		<link>http://www.zeldman.com/2009/07/12/web-standards-secret-sauce-webkit-in-iphone/#comment-44782</link>
		<dc:creator>bayrak</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Jul 2009 16:34:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.zeldman.com/?p=1624#comment-44782</guid>
		<description>thanks man.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>thanks man.</p>
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		<title>By: Apple's mobile Safari advances web standards - Notebook &#124; Web Style Guide</title>
		<link>http://www.zeldman.com/2009/07/12/web-standards-secret-sauce-webkit-in-iphone/#comment-44716</link>
		<dc:creator>Apple's mobile Safari advances web standards - Notebook &#124; Web Style Guide</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Jul 2009 08:49:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.zeldman.com/?p=1624#comment-44716</guid>
		<description>&lt;!--%kramer-ref-pre%--&gt;[...] Zeldman has written a nice piece on how Apple&#039;s Safari (particularly the mobile version) has made quiet but important advances to [...]&lt;!--%kramer-ref-post%--&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!--%kramer-ref-pre%-->[...] Zeldman has written a nice piece on how Apple&#39;s Safari (particularly the mobile version) has made quiet but important advances to [...]<!--%kramer-ref-post%--></p>
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		<title>By: 일모리와 웹표준</title>
		<link>http://www.zeldman.com/2009/07/12/web-standards-secret-sauce-webkit-in-iphone/#comment-44714</link>
		<dc:creator>일모리와 웹표준</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Jul 2009 08:04:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.zeldman.com/?p=1624#comment-44714</guid>
		<description>&lt;!--%kramer-ref-pre%--&gt;[...] Web standards secret sauce &#187;&#160;Jeffrey Zeldman 43 hours ago [...]&lt;!--%kramer-ref-post%--&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!--%kramer-ref-pre%-->[...] Web standards secret sauce &raquo;&nbsp;Jeffrey Zeldman 43 hours ago [...]<!--%kramer-ref-post%--></p>
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		<title>By: Jeffrey Zeldman</title>
		<link>http://www.zeldman.com/2009/07/12/web-standards-secret-sauce-webkit-in-iphone/#comment-44701</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeffrey Zeldman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 13 Jul 2009 23:45:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.zeldman.com/?p=1624#comment-44701</guid>
		<description>Steve: You&#039;re projecting your own hang-ups into the conversation. Nobody said Windows users were lowly, or that the majority of Firefox users aren&#039;t Windows users. I said most normal people don&#039;t waste brain cells thinking about user experience, operating systems, or browsers. They have other things to be getting on with, and they work with what&#039;s put in front of them. Linux and Mac OS and non-default browsers are tastes for people who seek them out. Most people don&#039;t. The sales figures tell you that.

As a web designer, I put research into every project. So does our whole team. Research includes interviewing people who use a product or website or have a point of view about a service. These aren&#039;t members of an elite group, they&#039;re &quot;normal&quot; folks (for lack of a better word), and I can tell from hundreds of hours of first-hand experience, they mostly don&#039;t care about web browsers and OSes. 

Published documentation backs this up as well. (As does common sense.) It&#039;s not elitism, it&#039;s just the nature of things.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Steve: You&#8217;re projecting your own hang-ups into the conversation. Nobody said Windows users were lowly, or that the majority of Firefox users aren&#8217;t Windows users. I said most normal people don&#8217;t waste brain cells thinking about user experience, operating systems, or browsers. They have other things to be getting on with, and they work with what&#8217;s put in front of them. Linux and Mac OS and non-default browsers are tastes for people who seek them out. Most people don&#8217;t. The sales figures tell you that.</p>
<p>As a web designer, I put research into every project. So does our whole team. Research includes interviewing people who use a product or website or have a point of view about a service. These aren&#8217;t members of an elite group, they&#8217;re &#8220;normal&#8221; folks (for lack of a better word), and I can tell from hundreds of hours of first-hand experience, they mostly don&#8217;t care about web browsers and OSes. </p>
<p>Published documentation backs this up as well. (As does common sense.) It&#8217;s not elitism, it&#8217;s just the nature of things.</p>
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		<title>By: Steve</title>
		<link>http://www.zeldman.com/2009/07/12/web-standards-secret-sauce-webkit-in-iphone/#comment-44697</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 13 Jul 2009 22:25:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.zeldman.com/?p=1624#comment-44697</guid>
		<description>@Stephane

&lt;blockquote&gt;Generalizing too much? Certainly not. Knowing the real-world audience? Definitely.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Really now, you have any hard facts to back up Zeldman&#039;s fairly typical elitist statement that Windows users will open whatever they&#039;re spoon-fed?  Firefox became a viable platform due to Windows users making it popular, not OSX/Linux, whose Firefox install base is statistically insignificant by comparison.

&lt;blockquote&gt;most Windows users open the browser that comes with their operating system, again without too much thought. This doesn’t make them dumb and us smart. We are interaction designers; they are not.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Zeldman has used &quot;they&quot; in reference to the lowly Windows commoners, so who must &quot;we&quot; knowledgeable interaction designers be?  Mac users, naturally.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Stephane</p>
<blockquote><p>Generalizing too much? Certainly not. Knowing the real-world audience? Definitely.</p></blockquote>
<p>Really now, you have any hard facts to back up Zeldman&#8217;s fairly typical elitist statement that Windows users will open whatever they&#8217;re spoon-fed?  Firefox became a viable platform due to Windows users making it popular, not OSX/Linux, whose Firefox install base is statistically insignificant by comparison.</p>
<blockquote><p>most Windows users open the browser that comes with their operating system, again without too much thought. This doesn’t make them dumb and us smart. We are interaction designers; they are not.</p></blockquote>
<p>Zeldman has used &#8220;they&#8221; in reference to the lowly Windows commoners, so who must &#8220;we&#8221; knowledgeable interaction designers be?  Mac users, naturally.</p>
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