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	<title>Comments on: XHTML DOA WTF</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.zeldman.com/2009/07/02/xhtml-wtf/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.zeldman.com/2009/07/02/xhtml-wtf/</link>
	<description>Web design news and insights since 1995</description>
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		<title>By: transfer dvd to avi</title>
		<link>http://www.zeldman.com/2009/07/02/xhtml-wtf/#comment-53700</link>
		<dc:creator>transfer dvd to avi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Mar 2010 09:14:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.zeldman.com/?p=1520#comment-53700</guid>
		<description>nice riddence, XHTML (Extensible Hypertext Markup Language) is a family of XML markup languages that mirror or extend versions of the widely used Hypertext Markup Language</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>nice riddence, XHTML (Extensible Hypertext Markup Language) is a family of XML markup languages that mirror or extend versions of the widely used Hypertext Markup Language</p>
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		<title>By: December &#171; 2009 &#171; Om Net Solution</title>
		<link>http://www.zeldman.com/2009/07/02/xhtml-wtf/#comment-51634</link>
		<dc:creator>December &#171; 2009 &#171; Om Net Solution</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 13 Jan 2010 08:05:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.zeldman.com/?p=1520#comment-51634</guid>
		<description>&lt;!--%kramer-ref-pre%--&gt;[...] When looking for some stability, we can usually turn to the code itself as it tends to stay unchanged for a long time (relatively speaking). So when something comes along and changes our code, it’s a big deal; and there are going to be some growing pains we’ll have to work through. Luckily, rumor has it, that we have one less change to worry about. [...]&lt;!--%kramer-ref-post%--&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!--%kramer-ref-pre%-->[...] When looking for some stability, we can usually turn to the code itself as it tends to stay unchanged for a long time (relatively speaking). So when something comes along and changes our code, it’s a big deal; and there are going to be some growing pains we’ll have to work through. Luckily, rumor has it, that we have one less change to worry about. [...]<!--%kramer-ref-post%--></p>
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		<title>By: Retrorocket Design: HTML5</title>
		<link>http://www.zeldman.com/2009/07/02/xhtml-wtf/#comment-50204</link>
		<dc:creator>Retrorocket Design: HTML5</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 29 Nov 2009 02:32:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.zeldman.com/?p=1520#comment-50204</guid>
		<description>&lt;!--%kramer-ref-pre%--&gt;[...] Willison has being doing good work highlighting new technical developments and raging arguments about the new standard.      Share your thoughts. Textile [...]&lt;!--%kramer-ref-post%--&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!--%kramer-ref-pre%-->[...] Willison has being doing good work highlighting new technical developments and raging arguments about the new standard.      Share your thoughts. Textile [...]<!--%kramer-ref-post%--></p>
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		<title>By: Clement in a Nutshell &#187; Default zoom level in Safari</title>
		<link>http://www.zeldman.com/2009/07/02/xhtml-wtf/#comment-49983</link>
		<dc:creator>Clement in a Nutshell &#187; Default zoom level in Safari</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Nov 2009 17:39:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.zeldman.com/?p=1520#comment-49983</guid>
		<description>&lt;!--%kramer-ref-pre%--&gt;[...] Web Development 的近期發展，對於近期火紅的 HTML5 、CSS3 @font-face 或胎死腹中的 XHTML 2.0 都想說一點，但感覺實在太 [...]&lt;!--%kramer-ref-post%--&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!--%kramer-ref-pre%-->[...] Web Development 的近期發展，對於近期火紅的 HTML5 、CSS3 @font-face 或胎死腹中的 XHTML 2.0 都想說一點，但感覺實在太 [...]<!--%kramer-ref-post%--></p>
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		<title>By: mark up so simple, although invalid - General (bugs, feedback, feature requests) - our.umbraco.org</title>
		<link>http://www.zeldman.com/2009/07/02/xhtml-wtf/#comment-49827</link>
		<dc:creator>mark up so simple, although invalid - General (bugs, feedback, feature requests) - our.umbraco.org</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Nov 2009 13:28:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.zeldman.com/?p=1520#comment-49827</guid>
		<description>&lt;!--%kramer-ref-pre%--&gt;[...] http://www.zeldman.com/2009/07/02/xhtml-wtf/) [...]&lt;!--%kramer-ref-post%--&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!--%kramer-ref-pre%-->[...] <a href="http://www.zeldman.com/2009/07/02/xhtml-wtf/)" rel="nofollow">http://www.zeldman.com/2009/07/02/xhtml-wtf/)</a> [...]<!--%kramer-ref-post%--></p>
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		<title>By: Misunderstanding Markup: XHTML 2/HTML 5 Comic Strip - Smashing Magazine</title>
		<link>http://www.zeldman.com/2009/07/02/xhtml-wtf/#comment-49710</link>
		<dc:creator>Misunderstanding Markup: XHTML 2/HTML 5 Comic Strip - Smashing Magazine</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Nov 2009 20:38:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.zeldman.com/?p=1520#comment-49710</guid>
		<description>[...] XHTML 2/HTML 5 Comic StripBy Brad ColbowJuly 29th, 2009Coding148 Comments AdvertisementSince the official announcement of W3C to stop working on the development of XHTML 2 in the end of 2009 and increase resources on HTML 5 instead, there has been a lot of confusion and [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] XHTML 2/HTML 5 Comic StripBy Brad ColbowJuly 29th, 2009Coding148 Comments AdvertisementSince the official announcement of W3C to stop working on the development of XHTML 2 in the end of 2009 and increase resources on HTML 5 instead, there has been a lot of confusion and [...]</p>
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		<title>By: איגוד האינטרנט הישראלי - מגזין</title>
		<link>http://www.zeldman.com/2009/07/02/xhtml-wtf/#comment-49699</link>
		<dc:creator>איגוד האינטרנט הישראלי - מגזין</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Nov 2009 13:34:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.zeldman.com/?p=1520#comment-49699</guid>
		<description>&lt;!--%kramer-ref-pre%--&gt;[...] גם כאבי התבגרות שנצטרך לעמוד בהם. למזלנו, השמועה אומרת, ששינוי אחד לפחות ירד מסדר היום. במאמר זה, אני מקווה להעניק מספר [...]&lt;!--%kramer-ref-post%--&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!--%kramer-ref-pre%-->[...] גם כאבי התבגרות שנצטרך לעמוד בהם. למזלנו, השמועה אומרת, ששינוי אחד לפחות ירד מסדר היום. במאמר זה, אני מקווה להעניק מספר [...]<!--%kramer-ref-post%--></p>
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		<title>By: Ready For HTML 5 &#124; Einchi</title>
		<link>http://www.zeldman.com/2009/07/02/xhtml-wtf/#comment-49532</link>
		<dc:creator>Ready For HTML 5 &#124; Einchi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Nov 2009 13:57:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.zeldman.com/?p=1520#comment-49532</guid>
		<description>[...] 2 is dead, long live HTML 5! According to W3C News Archive, XHTML 2 working group is expected to stop work end of 2009 and W3C is planning to increase resources on HTML 5 instead. And even although HTML 5 [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] 2 is dead, long live HTML 5! According to W3C News Archive, XHTML 2 working group is expected to stop work end of 2009 and W3C is planning to increase resources on HTML 5 instead. And even although HTML 5 [...]</p>
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		<title>By: HTML5 &#171; Power over Web</title>
		<link>http://www.zeldman.com/2009/07/02/xhtml-wtf/#comment-49505</link>
		<dc:creator>HTML5 &#171; Power over Web</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 01 Nov 2009 19:21:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.zeldman.com/?p=1520#comment-49505</guid>
		<description>[...] O altă sursă de probleme, atât pentru dezvoltatorii web cât și pentru producătorii de browsere, a fost reprezentată de faptul că existau două limbaje pregătite pentru a deveni „viitorul limbaj web” &#8211; HTML5, și XHTML 2.0. Problema a dispărut în urmă cu câteva luni, când W3C a anunțat oprirea lucrărilor la XHTML2.0. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] O altă sursă de probleme, atât pentru dezvoltatorii web cât și pentru producătorii de browsere, a fost reprezentată de faptul că existau două limbaje pregătite pentru a deveni „viitorul limbaj web” &#8211; HTML5, și XHTML 2.0. Problema a dispărut în urmă cu câteva luni, când W3C a anunțat oprirea lucrărilor la XHTML2.0. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: e-sushi</title>
		<link>http://www.zeldman.com/2009/07/02/xhtml-wtf/#comment-49447</link>
		<dc:creator>e-sushi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Oct 2009 04:27:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.zeldman.com/?p=1520#comment-49447</guid>
		<description>LOL... somewhat this whole discussion shows me that the html/xhtml hype I fell for myself was a waste of time and resources.

html5 is more compatible than other doctypes, it&#039;s cooler and more fancy? Geez, that&#039;s no wonder if the doctype pushes almost any known browsers back to the so-much-avoided quircks mode.

Call me a nerd, but didn&#039;t we nag at the doors of Microsoft and Netscape for years so they would make their browsers &quot;standards compliant&quot; instead of rendering their quirks mode? And now, after years and years of development, discussion and a bunch of working groups we get more tags and a thingy we once told that would kill our pages over time?

Bah, I used xhtml1.1 and hoped xhtml2.0 would strip more tags, adher more to the &quot;stick to the minimal basics while opening up in an xml way&quot; and last but not least draw a big, fat line between those who just &quot;whip up a quick, invalid website&quot; and those who &quot;know their code&quot;.

My 2 cents are: this whole html2.0 to html5 evolution is a round trip, taking us back to 1996. But telling us it&#039;s the invention of the wheel. Right... and in 2 or 3 years the W3C will say that blinking text is the newest thing and therefore a good idea or what? 

Have all those people that plugged out of their BBS and into the WWW forgotten about the past, or have they just retired?

On the other hand... somehow I like the fact that it is &quot;more compatible&quot;. It saves me from needing to adher to useless stuff and it sure saves me from whipping up my own doctype one day.

 If it were up to me, a document would have a HTML tag, a HEAD with contained TITLE, the well known BODYtag and just 9 main tags to be used: H1, H2, H3, P, UL, OL, A, DIV and SPAN. Ok, those forms and tables would throw in a few more, but I don&#039;t need a fancy doctype offering over 100 tags to push text to the screen in a useable and nice-looking way.

And think about this one: neiter the pages of Google, nor Bing do validate in any mode whatsoever. If that is what search-engines produce... why stick to standards anyway? Those companies (Google Inc. and Microsoft Inc.) are big enough to buy the planet... if they don&#039;t produce valid code, why should we?

And what about the &quot;plugins are now replaced by embedded rendering alternatives&quot; thingy? Cool, all that means is that the W3C is killing business for companies that digged their cash in the plugin market. Good thing that Macromedia didn&#039;t live long enough to see that happen... now it&#039;s a problem for Adobe, but they cash-in more on their flagships like Photoshop. 

Furthermore: stuff like &quot;video&quot; and &quot;canvas&quot;? Makes me think of Netscape&#039;s blinking text idea again! Remember that HTML = Hypertext, not Hypervideo or Hyperanimation. It&#039;s not even Hypercool... it&#039;s text, just a bit smarter. But hey, who am I to judge? 

In the end we all have to ask ourselves a totally different question: what do we need the W3C working groups for anyway if web evolution means &quot;going forward into the past&quot; to them? They could as well have simply added a few tags to html 2.0 and bingo...

Argh! Just realised this is just a simple comment box and not a place to post a book. I Hope I didn&#039;t kill your nerves for spitting out what my braincells produced and I sure hope I don&#039;t get hunted down and shot for this comment, but when I start agreeing with Zeldman, the world is getting out of order! ;)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>LOL&#8230; somewhat this whole discussion shows me that the html/xhtml hype I fell for myself was a waste of time and resources.</p>
<p>html5 is more compatible than other doctypes, it&#8217;s cooler and more fancy? Geez, that&#8217;s no wonder if the doctype pushes almost any known browsers back to the so-much-avoided quircks mode.</p>
<p>Call me a nerd, but didn&#8217;t we nag at the doors of Microsoft and Netscape for years so they would make their browsers &#8220;standards compliant&#8221; instead of rendering their quirks mode? And now, after years and years of development, discussion and a bunch of working groups we get more tags and a thingy we once told that would kill our pages over time?</p>
<p>Bah, I used xhtml1.1 and hoped xhtml2.0 would strip more tags, adher more to the &#8220;stick to the minimal basics while opening up in an xml way&#8221; and last but not least draw a big, fat line between those who just &#8220;whip up a quick, invalid website&#8221; and those who &#8220;know their code&#8221;.</p>
<p>My 2 cents are: this whole html2.0 to html5 evolution is a round trip, taking us back to 1996. But telling us it&#8217;s the invention of the wheel. Right&#8230; and in 2 or 3 years the W3C will say that blinking text is the newest thing and therefore a good idea or what? </p>
<p>Have all those people that plugged out of their BBS and into the WWW forgotten about the past, or have they just retired?</p>
<p>On the other hand&#8230; somehow I like the fact that it is &#8220;more compatible&#8221;. It saves me from needing to adher to useless stuff and it sure saves me from whipping up my own doctype one day.</p>
<p> If it were up to me, a document would have a HTML tag, a HEAD with contained TITLE, the well known BODYtag and just 9 main tags to be used: H1, H2, H3, P, UL, OL, A, DIV and SPAN. Ok, those forms and tables would throw in a few more, but I don&#8217;t need a fancy doctype offering over 100 tags to push text to the screen in a useable and nice-looking way.</p>
<p>And think about this one: neiter the pages of Google, nor Bing do validate in any mode whatsoever. If that is what search-engines produce&#8230; why stick to standards anyway? Those companies (Google Inc. and Microsoft Inc.) are big enough to buy the planet&#8230; if they don&#8217;t produce valid code, why should we?</p>
<p>And what about the &#8220;plugins are now replaced by embedded rendering alternatives&#8221; thingy? Cool, all that means is that the W3C is killing business for companies that digged their cash in the plugin market. Good thing that Macromedia didn&#8217;t live long enough to see that happen&#8230; now it&#8217;s a problem for Adobe, but they cash-in more on their flagships like Photoshop. </p>
<p>Furthermore: stuff like &#8220;video&#8221; and &#8220;canvas&#8221;? Makes me think of Netscape&#8217;s blinking text idea again! Remember that HTML = Hypertext, not Hypervideo or Hyperanimation. It&#8217;s not even Hypercool&#8230; it&#8217;s text, just a bit smarter. But hey, who am I to judge? </p>
<p>In the end we all have to ask ourselves a totally different question: what do we need the W3C working groups for anyway if web evolution means &#8220;going forward into the past&#8221; to them? They could as well have simply added a few tags to html 2.0 and bingo&#8230;</p>
<p>Argh! Just realised this is just a simple comment box and not a place to post a book. I Hope I didn&#8217;t kill your nerves for spitting out what my braincells produced and I sure hope I don&#8217;t get hunted down and shot for this comment, but when I start agreeing with Zeldman, the world is getting out of order! ;)</p>
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		<title>By: ds r4</title>
		<link>http://www.zeldman.com/2009/07/02/xhtml-wtf/#comment-49382</link>
		<dc:creator>ds r4</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 Oct 2009 11:32:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.zeldman.com/?p=1520#comment-49382</guid>
		<description>Great post! It really gives a detailed overview of the &quot;XHTML is dead&quot; confusion that has been discussed over the past few days.

I have to agree that learning and using XHTML is far from being redundant, especially for people who are beginning in web design and development. I feel that strict rules provide a much simpler framework for learning than &quot;loose rules with multiple shortcuts&quot;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great post! It really gives a detailed overview of the &#8220;XHTML is dead&#8221; confusion that has been discussed over the past few days.</p>
<p>I have to agree that learning and using XHTML is far from being redundant, especially for people who are beginning in web design and development. I feel that strict rules provide a much simpler framework for learning than &#8220;loose rules with multiple shortcuts&#8221;.</p>
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		<title>By: Words On Design: web design quotes</title>
		<link>http://www.zeldman.com/2009/07/02/xhtml-wtf/#comment-48907</link>
		<dc:creator>Words On Design: web design quotes</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Oct 2009 11:54:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.zeldman.com/?p=1520#comment-48907</guid>
		<description>&lt;!--%kramer-ref-pre%--&gt;[...] “1999: XML is the light and XHTML is the way. 2009: XHTML is dead—kind of.”   via: www.zeldman.com [...]&lt;!--%kramer-ref-post%--&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!--%kramer-ref-pre%-->[...] “1999: XML is the light and XHTML is the way. 2009: XHTML is dead—kind of.”   via: <a href="http://www.zeldman.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.zeldman.com</a> [...]<!--%kramer-ref-post%--></p>
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		<title>By: „XML FTW!“ aus reieRMeisters isnoBlog</title>
		<link>http://www.zeldman.com/2009/07/02/xhtml-wtf/#comment-48905</link>
		<dc:creator>„XML FTW!“ aus reieRMeisters isnoBlog</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Oct 2009 07:26:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.zeldman.com/?p=1520#comment-48905</guid>
		<description>&lt;!--%kramer-ref-pre%--&gt;[...] jetzt irgendein Schlaumeier meint, dass XHTML2 ja gerade mit warmem Torf bedeckt wurde und ich ja so aufs falsche Pferd gesetzt habe – dem schleudere ich nur keck entgegen: [...]&lt;!--%kramer-ref-post%--&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!--%kramer-ref-pre%-->[...] jetzt irgendein Schlaumeier meint, dass XHTML2 ja gerade mit warmem Torf bedeckt wurde und ich ja so aufs falsche Pferd gesetzt habe – dem schleudere ich nur keck entgegen: [...]<!--%kramer-ref-post%--></p>
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		<title>By: Hiring Managers! Do You Know What You Want? &#8211; six03</title>
		<link>http://www.zeldman.com/2009/07/02/xhtml-wtf/#comment-48875</link>
		<dc:creator>Hiring Managers! Do You Know What You Want? &#8211; six03</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 Oct 2009 19:08:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.zeldman.com/?p=1520#comment-48875</guid>
		<description>[...] There is also HTML 4 &amp; HTML 5, XHTML Strict and Transitional (among others), 1.0 &amp; 1.1, even 2.0 which is dead in the water at this time. Tags close differently in XHTML than HTML. Please understand that [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] There is also HTML 4 &amp; HTML 5, XHTML Strict and Transitional (among others), 1.0 &amp; 1.1, even 2.0 which is dead in the water at this time. Tags close differently in XHTML than HTML. Please understand that [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Непонимание разметки. Комикс про XHTML 2 и HTML5 / Хабрахабр</title>
		<link>http://www.zeldman.com/2009/07/02/xhtml-wtf/#comment-48863</link>
		<dc:creator>Непонимание разметки. Комикс про XHTML 2 и HTML5 / Хабрахабр</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 Oct 2009 18:22:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.zeldman.com/?p=1520#comment-48863</guid>
		<description>&lt;!--%kramer-ref-pre%--&gt;[...] разметки. Комикс про XHTML 2 и HTML5  С выходом HTML 5 и анонсом W3С о прекращении разработки XHTML 2 в конце 2009 год... начались активные дебаты по поводу будущей [...]&lt;!--%kramer-ref-post%--&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!--%kramer-ref-pre%-->[...] разметки. Комикс про XHTML 2 и HTML5  С выходом HTML 5 и анонсом W3С о прекращении разработки XHTML 2 в конце 2009 год&#8230; начались активные дебаты по поводу будущей [...]<!--%kramer-ref-post%--></p>
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