<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
		>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: Sour Outlook</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.zeldman.com/2009/06/24/sour-outlook/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.zeldman.com/2009/06/24/sour-outlook/</link>
	<description>Web design news and insights since 1995</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Sat, 20 Mar 2010 19:01:57 +0000</lastBuildDate>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2</generator>
	<sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency>
		<item>
		<title>By: Fixoutlook.org Campaign for Better HTML Email &#183; NavigationArts</title>
		<link>http://www.zeldman.com/2009/06/24/sour-outlook/#comment-51488</link>
		<dc:creator>Fixoutlook.org Campaign for Better HTML Email &#183; NavigationArts</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 05 Jan 2010 17:43:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.zeldman.com/?p=1435#comment-51488</guid>
		<description>[...] And now, the Almighty Zeldman chimes in. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] And now, the Almighty Zeldman chimes in. [...]</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: John Jansen</title>
		<link>http://www.zeldman.com/2009/06/24/sour-outlook/#comment-47484</link>
		<dc:creator>John Jansen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Aug 2009 05:38:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.zeldman.com/?p=1435#comment-47484</guid>
		<description>Basically whats going on here is that MS have a proprietry format for outlook-to-outlook. Which they are entirely entitled to retain. However, it should be just that, outlook-to-outlook ONLY. There is no reason they cannot detect and change the renderer based on the presence of a header(or lack thereof).

Since they control the source information, in the case of outlook-to-outlook, they can (and may already) decorate the message with a creator header, in which case that is their queue to use Word as the renderer.

In all other cases, why not just use IE, Webkit or Gecko, anything other than word !!!

After all, lets face it, its rubbish at displaying standards compliant HTML (full or subset)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Basically whats going on here is that MS have a proprietry format for outlook-to-outlook. Which they are entirely entitled to retain. However, it should be just that, outlook-to-outlook ONLY. There is no reason they cannot detect and change the renderer based on the presence of a header(or lack thereof).</p>
<p>Since they control the source information, in the case of outlook-to-outlook, they can (and may already) decorate the message with a creator header, in which case that is their queue to use Word as the renderer.</p>
<p>In all other cases, why not just use IE, Webkit or Gecko, anything other than word !!!</p>
<p>After all, lets face it, its rubbish at displaying standards compliant HTML (full or subset)</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Neowin Forums &#62; Microsoft holds back the web again</title>
		<link>http://www.zeldman.com/2009/06/24/sour-outlook/#comment-47034</link>
		<dc:creator>Neowin Forums &#62; Microsoft holds back the web again</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Aug 2009 10:55:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.zeldman.com/?p=1435#comment-47034</guid>
		<description>&lt;!--%kramer-ref-pre%--&gt;[...]  [...]&lt;!--%kramer-ref-post%--&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!--%kramer-ref-pre%-->[...]  [...]<!--%kramer-ref-post%--></p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Jeffrey Zeldman Presents The Daily Report</title>
		<link>http://www.zeldman.com/2009/06/24/sour-outlook/#comment-44375</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeffrey Zeldman Presents The Daily Report</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Jul 2009 15:57:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.zeldman.com/?p=1435#comment-44375</guid>
		<description>&lt;!--%kramer-ref-pre%--&gt;[...] 24 Jun 2009 6 pm eastern [...]&lt;!--%kramer-ref-post%--&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!--%kramer-ref-pre%-->[...] 24 Jun 2009 6 pm eastern [...]<!--%kramer-ref-post%--></p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: ELITE IT Solutions &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Sour Outlook</title>
		<link>http://www.zeldman.com/2009/06/24/sour-outlook/#comment-43941</link>
		<dc:creator>ELITE IT Solutions &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Sour Outlook</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Jul 2009 03:00:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.zeldman.com/?p=1435#comment-43941</guid>
		<description>[...] To read the whole story go to zeldman.com [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] To read the whole story go to zeldman.com [...]</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Adam</title>
		<link>http://www.zeldman.com/2009/06/24/sour-outlook/#comment-43790</link>
		<dc:creator>Adam</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Jul 2009 13:30:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.zeldman.com/?p=1435#comment-43790</guid>
		<description>Well, Outlook 2007 does not really support CSS anyway, I designed and coded a Mailshot flyer in valid html and css and it worked fine in outlook 2000 and 2003 but in Outlook 2007 it was a complete and utter mess.

Companies Such as Verticle Response have problems with outlook too, it&#039;s one total shitter of a product.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, Outlook 2007 does not really support CSS anyway, I designed and coded a Mailshot flyer in valid html and css and it worked fine in outlook 2000 and 2003 but in Outlook 2007 it was a complete and utter mess.</p>
<p>Companies Such as Verticle Response have problems with outlook too, it&#8217;s one total shitter of a product.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: ELITE IT Solutions &#187; News</title>
		<link>http://www.zeldman.com/2009/06/24/sour-outlook/#comment-43773</link>
		<dc:creator>ELITE IT Solutions &#187; News</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Jul 2009 02:18:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.zeldman.com/?p=1435#comment-43773</guid>
		<description>&lt;!--%kramer-ref-pre%--&gt;[...] To read the whole story go to zeldman.com [...]&lt;!--%kramer-ref-post%--&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!--%kramer-ref-pre%-->[...] To read the whole story go to zeldman.com [...]<!--%kramer-ref-post%--></p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Un logiciel (récent) et son moteur (pas du tout adapté)... - Pour les formats ouverts !</title>
		<link>http://www.zeldman.com/2009/06/24/sour-outlook/#comment-43741</link>
		<dc:creator>Un logiciel (récent) et son moteur (pas du tout adapté)... - Pour les formats ouverts !</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Jun 2009 12:56:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.zeldman.com/?p=1435#comment-43741</guid>
		<description>&lt;!--%kramer-ref-pre%--&gt;[...] [1] Article, Sour Outlook, de Jeffrey Zeldman, le 24 juin 2009, en anglais, http://www.zeldman.com/2009/06/24/sour-outlook/ [...]&lt;!--%kramer-ref-post%--&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!--%kramer-ref-pre%-->[...] [1] Article, Sour Outlook, de Jeffrey Zeldman, le 24 juin 2009, en anglais, <a href="http://www.zeldman.com/2009/06/24/sour-outlook/" rel="nofollow">http://www.zeldman.com/2009/06/24/sour-outlook/</a> [...]<!--%kramer-ref-post%--></p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Weekly digest &#124; Capping IT Off &#124; Capgemini &#124; Consulting, Technology, Outsourcing</title>
		<link>http://www.zeldman.com/2009/06/24/sour-outlook/#comment-43736</link>
		<dc:creator>Weekly digest &#124; Capping IT Off &#124; Capgemini &#124; Consulting, Technology, Outsourcing</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Jun 2009 18:05:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.zeldman.com/?p=1435#comment-43736</guid>
		<description>&lt;!--%kramer-ref-pre%--&gt;[...] Sour Outlook [...]&lt;!--%kramer-ref-post%--&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!--%kramer-ref-pre%-->[...] Sour Outlook [...]<!--%kramer-ref-post%--></p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Julia</title>
		<link>http://www.zeldman.com/2009/06/24/sour-outlook/#comment-43735</link>
		<dc:creator>Julia</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Jun 2009 10:57:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.zeldman.com/?p=1435#comment-43735</guid>
		<description>I never liked Outlook, but it&#039;s standard in many companies worldwide.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I never liked Outlook, but it&#8217;s standard in many companies worldwide.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Mike Whitehurst</title>
		<link>http://www.zeldman.com/2009/06/24/sour-outlook/#comment-43733</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike Whitehurst</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Jun 2009 08:27:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.zeldman.com/?p=1435#comment-43733</guid>
		<description>I&#039;ve always thought that the HTML e-mail feature set was too large - making it a viable method of advertising (a.k.a. SPAM!)

There&#039;s no real reason to support fonts. If the e-mail client has a nice default font, then using strong, em, and so on - the meaning can be conveyed.

Can&#039;t really get rid of links, people need those - boy would it be nice if we could. Attachments are necessary - but inline images probably aren&#039;t.

Inline images attract people to style their emails for marketing purposes, but people sharing photos can (and usually do) send them as attachments. Images are already restricted because they cause a visit to a particular URL, which can be identified for tracking purposes. I would like to see images removed from the &quot;HTML Email Specification&quot; - which apparently needs defining.

*wonders if the W3C already defined it, but can&#039;t be bothered to look*</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve always thought that the HTML e-mail feature set was too large &#8211; making it a viable method of advertising (a.k.a. SPAM!)</p>
<p>There&#8217;s no real reason to support fonts. If the e-mail client has a nice default font, then using strong, em, and so on &#8211; the meaning can be conveyed.</p>
<p>Can&#8217;t really get rid of links, people need those &#8211; boy would it be nice if we could. Attachments are necessary &#8211; but inline images probably aren&#8217;t.</p>
<p>Inline images attract people to style their emails for marketing purposes, but people sharing photos can (and usually do) send them as attachments. Images are already restricted because they cause a visit to a particular URL, which can be identified for tracking purposes. I would like to see images removed from the &#8220;HTML Email Specification&#8221; &#8211; which apparently needs defining.</p>
<p>*wonders if the W3C already defined it, but can&#8217;t be bothered to look*</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Niels Matthijs</title>
		<link>http://www.zeldman.com/2009/06/24/sour-outlook/#comment-43732</link>
		<dc:creator>Niels Matthijs</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Jun 2009 07:13:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.zeldman.com/?p=1435#comment-43732</guid>
		<description>I always thought MS implemented the Word engine because it believed most of its users actually composed their mails in Word before sending them. So for them, they could actually send a mail as they composed it, rather than start learning html and stuff to make up a &quot;nice&quot; mail.

And I think I can even relate to that reasoning, apart from the fact it seriously screw us web developers over of course.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I always thought MS implemented the Word engine because it believed most of its users actually composed their mails in Word before sending them. So for them, they could actually send a mail as they composed it, rather than start learning html and stuff to make up a &#8220;nice&#8221; mail.</p>
<p>And I think I can even relate to that reasoning, apart from the fact it seriously screw us web developers over of course.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Should Microsoft fix Outlook? &#171; Steve Rydz</title>
		<link>http://www.zeldman.com/2009/06/24/sour-outlook/#comment-43722</link>
		<dc:creator>Should Microsoft fix Outlook? &#171; Steve Rydz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 28 Jun 2009 05:29:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.zeldman.com/?p=1435#comment-43722</guid>
		<description>[...] is already a campaign for Microsoft to fix this issue and Web veterans such as Jeffrey Zeldman have written about it also. All in all the majorityof designers and developers are against Miscrosoft going forward with [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] is already a campaign for Microsoft to fix this issue and Web veterans such as Jeffrey Zeldman have written about it also. All in all the majorityof designers and developers are against Miscrosoft going forward with [...]</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Should Microsoft fix Outlook 2010? &#171; Steve Rydz</title>
		<link>http://www.zeldman.com/2009/06/24/sour-outlook/#comment-43721</link>
		<dc:creator>Should Microsoft fix Outlook 2010? &#171; Steve Rydz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 28 Jun 2009 05:14:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.zeldman.com/?p=1435#comment-43721</guid>
		<description>[...] is already a campaign for Microsoft to fix this issue and Web veterans such as Jeffrey Zeldman have written about it also. All in all the majorityof designers and developers are against Miscrosoft going forward with [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] is already a campaign for Microsoft to fix this issue and Web veterans such as Jeffrey Zeldman have written about it also. All in all the majorityof designers and developers are against Miscrosoft going forward with [...]</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Eric Peacock</title>
		<link>http://www.zeldman.com/2009/06/24/sour-outlook/#comment-43716</link>
		<dc:creator>Eric Peacock</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 27 Jun 2009 21:02:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.zeldman.com/?p=1435#comment-43716</guid>
		<description>Tyler Butler&#039;s additional comment is a nice contribution to the discussion. I&#039;ve wondered just how convoluted the Outlook/Office code base is that doing what we&#039;re asking is no small task. Windows/Office has had a huge security deficit for a long time that is continually patched and revised but never eradicated due to all the functionality that Office has to maintain. That probably means changing the rendering engine in Outlook is a programmers nightmare unless they&#039;re starting over from scratch. I don&#039;t think the business numbers are going to support that.

Still, I&#039;m hoping for some kind of acknowledgement or commitment to resolving what is going to be a huge problem going forward, at least for Outlook users not restricted to intranet communication. Transparency about supporting standard features is good PR. Showing good judgement and leadership is good PR. I guess what we need is good PR.

We&#039;d all probably be happier if Microsoft would publicly agree that email needs to be standardized even in it&#039;s current state and at least explain that they can&#039;t do it now, but will.

The &quot;rich experience&quot; spin offered does a better job of saying &quot;please use someone else&#039;s products&quot; since they are doing a better job with web standards.

And I will. I&#039;m a web professional, but I also oversee several networks that use Microsoft products. I&#039;ve always tried to be platform agnostic as an admin, but my recommendations to my superiors are less and less favorable to Microsoft products due to their higher support costs and the simple fact that we don&#039;t use 85% of the features we pay for. Office isn&#039;t the only game in town and hasn&#039;t been for years. We&#039;re talking small companies here, so take this as in that context only.

Email as a standard is as mess as senders can be spoofed so easily and has no security hooks at all. Improving it in any way is long overdue. I&#039;m not a fan of HTML formatted emails, but we use them for more than annoying marketing for things like invitations, sharing photos (inline viewing), etc.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tyler Butler&#8217;s additional comment is a nice contribution to the discussion. I&#8217;ve wondered just how convoluted the Outlook/Office code base is that doing what we&#8217;re asking is no small task. Windows/Office has had a huge security deficit for a long time that is continually patched and revised but never eradicated due to all the functionality that Office has to maintain. That probably means changing the rendering engine in Outlook is a programmers nightmare unless they&#8217;re starting over from scratch. I don&#8217;t think the business numbers are going to support that.</p>
<p>Still, I&#8217;m hoping for some kind of acknowledgement or commitment to resolving what is going to be a huge problem going forward, at least for Outlook users not restricted to intranet communication. Transparency about supporting standard features is good PR. Showing good judgement and leadership is good PR. I guess what we need is good PR.</p>
<p>We&#8217;d all probably be happier if Microsoft would publicly agree that email needs to be standardized even in it&#8217;s current state and at least explain that they can&#8217;t do it now, but will.</p>
<p>The &#8220;rich experience&#8221; spin offered does a better job of saying &#8220;please use someone else&#8217;s products&#8221; since they are doing a better job with web standards.</p>
<p>And I will. I&#8217;m a web professional, but I also oversee several networks that use Microsoft products. I&#8217;ve always tried to be platform agnostic as an admin, but my recommendations to my superiors are less and less favorable to Microsoft products due to their higher support costs and the simple fact that we don&#8217;t use 85% of the features we pay for. Office isn&#8217;t the only game in town and hasn&#8217;t been for years. We&#8217;re talking small companies here, so take this as in that context only.</p>
<p>Email as a standard is as mess as senders can be spoofed so easily and has no security hooks at all. Improving it in any way is long overdue. I&#8217;m not a fan of HTML formatted emails, but we use them for more than annoying marketing for things like invitations, sharing photos (inline viewing), etc.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>
