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	<title>Comments on: DWWS 3e</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.zeldman.com/2009/03/04/dwws-3e/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.zeldman.com/2009/03/04/dwws-3e/</link>
	<description>Web design news and insights since 1995</description>
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		<title>By: Dimka</title>
		<link>http://www.zeldman.com/2009/03/04/dwws-3e/#comment-41058</link>
		<dc:creator>Dimka</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 14 Mar 2009 16:46:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.zeldman.com/?p=608#comment-41058</guid>
		<description>it would be helpful if you review any applications that help design with standards, also any CMS that do a good job.
Any thoughts on resolution independent sites? For example will dpi of images matter etc.
thank you</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>it would be helpful if you review any applications that help design with standards, also any CMS that do a good job.<br />
Any thoughts on resolution independent sites? For example will dpi of images matter etc.<br />
thank you</p>
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	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Jeffrey Zeldman</title>
		<link>http://www.zeldman.com/2009/03/04/dwws-3e/#comment-41039</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeffrey Zeldman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Mar 2009 14:35:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.zeldman.com/?p=608#comment-41039</guid>
		<description>Thank you, Kris! It&#039;s not possible to pre-order &lt;em&gt;yet&lt;/em&gt; but I&#039;ll start a little list and let New Riders know. Thank you again! :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank you, Kris! It&#8217;s not possible to pre-order <em>yet</em> but I&#8217;ll start a little list and let New Riders know. Thank you again! :)</p>
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	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Kris Marissens</title>
		<link>http://www.zeldman.com/2009/03/04/dwws-3e/#comment-41037</link>
		<dc:creator>Kris Marissens</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Mar 2009 12:57:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.zeldman.com/?p=608#comment-41037</guid>
		<description>I want to pre-order. Loving the &quot;Is Fire hot or cold?&quot; check :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I want to pre-order. Loving the &#8220;Is Fire hot or cold?&#8221; check :)</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Weekly Links #43 &#124; GrantPalin.com</title>
		<link>http://www.zeldman.com/2009/03/04/dwws-3e/#comment-41035</link>
		<dc:creator>Weekly Links #43 &#124; GrantPalin.com</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Mar 2009 04:29:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.zeldman.com/?p=608#comment-41035</guid>
		<description>[...] DWWS 3e Jeffrey Zeldman is working on a 3rd edition of his excellent book, Designing With Web Standards. Some discussion and requests on material to be covered. Want! [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] DWWS 3e Jeffrey Zeldman is working on a 3rd edition of his excellent book, Designing With Web Standards. Some discussion and requests on material to be covered. Want! [...]</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Brad Bice</title>
		<link>http://www.zeldman.com/2009/03/04/dwws-3e/#comment-40984</link>
		<dc:creator>Brad Bice</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Mar 2009 01:50:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.zeldman.com/?p=608#comment-40984</guid>
		<description>Awesome, I am very excited for this!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Awesome, I am very excited for this!</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Narshada</title>
		<link>http://www.zeldman.com/2009/03/04/dwws-3e/#comment-40983</link>
		<dc:creator>Narshada</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Mar 2009 23:47:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.zeldman.com/?p=608#comment-40983</guid>
		<description>OK, now I&#039;m excited - it sounds like a very worthy update. And me not quite finished the second edition yet! (I know I&#039;m late to the party, but I brought nibbles!)

Any thoughts on touching on naming conventions for attributes as part of the semantics section? Andy Clarke produced a neat little table of naming conventions by major designers a while back.

Oh and can you work out an upgrade pricing structure for those of us with earlier editions like Adobe does with its Creative Suite? ;)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>OK, now I&#8217;m excited &#8211; it sounds like a very worthy update. And me not quite finished the second edition yet! (I know I&#8217;m late to the party, but I brought nibbles!)</p>
<p>Any thoughts on touching on naming conventions for attributes as part of the semantics section? Andy Clarke produced a neat little table of naming conventions by major designers a while back.</p>
<p>Oh and can you work out an upgrade pricing structure for those of us with earlier editions like Adobe does with its Creative Suite? ;)</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Jeffrey Zeldman</title>
		<link>http://www.zeldman.com/2009/03/04/dwws-3e/#comment-40954</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeffrey Zeldman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Mar 2009 19:17:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.zeldman.com/?p=608#comment-40954</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;
Are you going to require any updated screenshots of browsers displaying current sites running on vintage computing platforms? Newton? BeOS? System 7? Let me know.
&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Excellent, my friend. Thank you.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>
Are you going to require any updated screenshots of browsers displaying current sites running on vintage computing platforms? Newton? BeOS? System 7? Let me know.
</p></blockquote>
<p>Excellent, my friend. Thank you.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Grant Hutchinson</title>
		<link>http://www.zeldman.com/2009/03/04/dwws-3e/#comment-40953</link>
		<dc:creator>Grant Hutchinson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Mar 2009 19:00:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.zeldman.com/?p=608#comment-40953</guid>
		<description>Are you going to require any updated screenshots of browsers displaying current sites running on vintage computing platforms? Newton? BeOS? System 7? Let me know.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Are you going to require any updated screenshots of browsers displaying current sites running on vintage computing platforms? Newton? BeOS? System 7? Let me know.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Andreas Möller</title>
		<link>http://www.zeldman.com/2009/03/04/dwws-3e/#comment-40952</link>
		<dc:creator>Andreas Möller</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Mar 2009 17:58:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.zeldman.com/?p=608#comment-40952</guid>
		<description>No matter what, I&#039;m in for it . . . !</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No matter what, I&#8217;m in for it . . . !</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Andreas Möller</title>
		<link>http://www.zeldman.com/2009/03/04/dwws-3e/#comment-40951</link>
		<dc:creator>Andreas Möller</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Mar 2009 17:56:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.zeldman.com/?p=608#comment-40951</guid>
		<description>Are you going to be wearing a blue beanie again . . . ?


Best wishes,

Andreas</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Are you going to be wearing a blue beanie again . . . ?</p>
<p>Best wishes,</p>
<p>Andreas</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Newtoid</title>
		<link>http://www.zeldman.com/2009/03/04/dwws-3e/#comment-40950</link>
		<dc:creator>Newtoid</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Mar 2009 17:48:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.zeldman.com/?p=608#comment-40950</guid>
		<description>Indigo please!!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Indigo please!!</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Ville Vartiainen</title>
		<link>http://www.zeldman.com/2009/03/04/dwws-3e/#comment-40949</link>
		<dc:creator>Ville Vartiainen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Mar 2009 17:23:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.zeldman.com/?p=608#comment-40949</guid>
		<description>Will you deal with the mania that is WCAG 2.0 and how to approach it?

Graceful degradation versus Progressive enhancement?

Look forward to it!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Will you deal with the mania that is WCAG 2.0 and how to approach it?</p>
<p>Graceful degradation versus Progressive enhancement?</p>
<p>Look forward to it!</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Jeffrey Zeldman</title>
		<link>http://www.zeldman.com/2009/03/04/dwws-3e/#comment-40948</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeffrey Zeldman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Mar 2009 16:54:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.zeldman.com/?p=608#comment-40948</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;
Microformats??? CSS3 (progressive enrichment)??? HTML5??? Coping with IE6?
&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Yes!!! Yess!!! Yes!!! Yes!!!

&lt;blockquote&gt;
For owners of DWWS 1e and 2e, will there be enough new content to justify purchase of 3e?
&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Yes.

&lt;blockquote&gt;
I think the question on everyone’s mind is; what colour is the third edition cover going to be?
&lt;/blockquote&gt;

I am toying with blue, red, and brown, but who knows?

Maybe glitter.

Or wood texture. I hear the kids like that.

&lt;blockquote&gt;
How much will be different from the 2nd edition? And will we see another cover color?
&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Large chunks of the book will be substantially different. Whole chapters are going out the window, replaced by new material. (For instance, current chapters 3 and 4 are gone.) There&#039;s a new, three-part structure, with a leaner front end, a cleaner middle where principles of semantic markup, CSS layout, unobtrusive scripting, and so on are discussed, and new, more complex layout examples in the back. 

Kiss hybrid layouts goodbye. There&#039;s more about semantics. HTML 5: what it is, where it&#039;s at, what it means for &quot;forward compatibility&quot; of XHTML; microformats: concepts, languages, examples in use on cool sites and Google, limitations of microformats as a forward strategy, accessibility problems, excessive code problem. Long- and short-term prospects for emerging specifications and browsers. IE7 and IE8 (and what do we do about IE6 users?) Safari, Chrome, and Webkit. Tools. Heroes and heroines. More techniques to evangelize standards. How to sell standards internally. What to say to recalcitrant IT departments, indifferent bosses, etc.

Lots of stuff.

&lt;blockquote&gt;
I was very disappointed by your take on XHTML vs. HTML in the second edition. Will you continue to pretend that there are no issues with XTHML or are you going to be more responsible this time?
&lt;/blockquote&gt;

I never pretended there were no issues. In the foreword, I discussed the chief objection, with links to Hixie&#039;s article. I explained why Hixie&#039;s problem, although real, didn&#039;t concern me; encouraged trial of XHTML since that was my view; and encouraged readers to make up their own minds. (The &quot;ten reasons&quot; and &quot;five reasons&quot; thing was an attempt to bring mild comic relief to an amazingly boring subject.)

That said, with HTML 5 in the offing, with XHTML 2 not looking like a terrific option for most web designers, there are more issues, and this time around I&#039;ll spend time talking about HTML 4 and HTML 5 as well as XHTML 1. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>
Microformats??? CSS3 (progressive enrichment)??? HTML5??? Coping with IE6?
</p></blockquote>
<p>Yes!!! Yess!!! Yes!!! Yes!!!</p>
<blockquote><p>
For owners of DWWS 1e and 2e, will there be enough new content to justify purchase of 3e?
</p></blockquote>
<p>Yes.</p>
<blockquote><p>
I think the question on everyone’s mind is; what colour is the third edition cover going to be?
</p></blockquote>
<p>I am toying with blue, red, and brown, but who knows?</p>
<p>Maybe glitter.</p>
<p>Or wood texture. I hear the kids like that.</p>
<blockquote><p>
How much will be different from the 2nd edition? And will we see another cover color?
</p></blockquote>
<p>Large chunks of the book will be substantially different. Whole chapters are going out the window, replaced by new material. (For instance, current chapters 3 and 4 are gone.) There&#8217;s a new, three-part structure, with a leaner front end, a cleaner middle where principles of semantic markup, CSS layout, unobtrusive scripting, and so on are discussed, and new, more complex layout examples in the back. </p>
<p>Kiss hybrid layouts goodbye. There&#8217;s more about semantics. HTML 5: what it is, where it&#8217;s at, what it means for &#8220;forward compatibility&#8221; of XHTML; microformats: concepts, languages, examples in use on cool sites and Google, limitations of microformats as a forward strategy, accessibility problems, excessive code problem. Long- and short-term prospects for emerging specifications and browsers. IE7 and IE8 (and what do we do about IE6 users?) Safari, Chrome, and Webkit. Tools. Heroes and heroines. More techniques to evangelize standards. How to sell standards internally. What to say to recalcitrant IT departments, indifferent bosses, etc.</p>
<p>Lots of stuff.</p>
<blockquote><p>
I was very disappointed by your take on XHTML vs. HTML in the second edition. Will you continue to pretend that there are no issues with XTHML or are you going to be more responsible this time?
</p></blockquote>
<p>I never pretended there were no issues. In the foreword, I discussed the chief objection, with links to Hixie&#8217;s article. I explained why Hixie&#8217;s problem, although real, didn&#8217;t concern me; encouraged trial of XHTML since that was my view; and encouraged readers to make up their own minds. (The &#8220;ten reasons&#8221; and &#8220;five reasons&#8221; thing was an attempt to bring mild comic relief to an amazingly boring subject.)</p>
<p>That said, with HTML 5 in the offing, with XHTML 2 not looking like a terrific option for most web designers, there are more issues, and this time around I&#8217;ll spend time talking about HTML 4 and HTML 5 as well as XHTML 1.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Lauren</title>
		<link>http://www.zeldman.com/2009/03/04/dwws-3e/#comment-40947</link>
		<dc:creator>Lauren</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Mar 2009 15:01:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.zeldman.com/?p=608#comment-40947</guid>
		<description>Despite the fact that &quot;some&quot; of us don&#039;t code for antique browsers anymore, I still think it&#039;s an important learning element from the book.  Trying to understand something without knowing its history is pretty pointless.  Newer developers can only really appreciate what we&#039;re working towards if they understand the reasoning behind it.  If you find yourself in a position where you might not find that information as enlightening, just skip the chapter.  It doesn&#039;t hurt anything by being there.

Also, I&#039;d love more information on microformats, CSS3, and why CSS frameworks are a bad idea (personal opinion I suppose, they just make everything so bloated...learning proper CSS should be a priority over learning to work within a predefined framework).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Despite the fact that &#8220;some&#8221; of us don&#8217;t code for antique browsers anymore, I still think it&#8217;s an important learning element from the book.  Trying to understand something without knowing its history is pretty pointless.  Newer developers can only really appreciate what we&#8217;re working towards if they understand the reasoning behind it.  If you find yourself in a position where you might not find that information as enlightening, just skip the chapter.  It doesn&#8217;t hurt anything by being there.</p>
<p>Also, I&#8217;d love more information on microformats, CSS3, and why CSS frameworks are a bad idea (personal opinion I suppose, they just make everything so bloated&#8230;learning proper CSS should be a priority over learning to work within a predefined framework).</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Eric Ellenberg</title>
		<link>http://www.zeldman.com/2009/03/04/dwws-3e/#comment-40946</link>
		<dc:creator>Eric Ellenberg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Mar 2009 12:14:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.zeldman.com/?p=608#comment-40946</guid>
		<description>• Netscape in general seems like a distant memory now, and IE 5 is all but gone as well. The principles of graceful degradation will still apply to them, but I don&#039;t see these older browsers needing much more than a mention to make the point.
• With Google indexing Flash content now, The F Word needs to be revisited. Open standards are a better choice for media-rich sites in the long run, but in some cases this can be a hard pitch.
• CSS frameworks and Javascript libraries need some attention. In particular, how the levels of abstraction they provide offer benefits in a functionally diversifying browser market. Which leads me to...
• Support for emerging standards. Microsoft wants IE 8 to have “most complete implementation of the CSS 2.1 specification in the industry,” but now more nimble browsers are implementing support for certain aspects of CSS3 and HTML5. Progressive enhancement is going to become much more important in the coming years, methinks.
• “Methinks” is silly, but it&#039;s fun.

These are the first four things that came to mind. And Jeffrey: Thanks. Your book has helped me grow as web designer, and for that I cannot thank you enough for your hard work. Good luck with the third edition, I look forward to it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>• Netscape in general seems like a distant memory now, and IE 5 is all but gone as well. The principles of graceful degradation will still apply to them, but I don&#8217;t see these older browsers needing much more than a mention to make the point.<br />
• With Google indexing Flash content now, The F Word needs to be revisited. Open standards are a better choice for media-rich sites in the long run, but in some cases this can be a hard pitch.<br />
• CSS frameworks and Javascript libraries need some attention. In particular, how the levels of abstraction they provide offer benefits in a functionally diversifying browser market. Which leads me to&#8230;<br />
• Support for emerging standards. Microsoft wants IE 8 to have “most complete implementation of the CSS 2.1 specification in the industry,” but now more nimble browsers are implementing support for certain aspects of CSS3 and HTML5. Progressive enhancement is going to become much more important in the coming years, methinks.<br />
• “Methinks” is silly, but it&#8217;s fun.</p>
<p>These are the first four things that came to mind. And Jeffrey: Thanks. Your book has helped me grow as web designer, and for that I cannot thank you enough for your hard work. Good luck with the third edition, I look forward to it.</p>
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