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	<title>Comments on: A modest proposal</title>
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		<title>By: Daring Fireball Linked List: September 2008</title>
		<link>http://www.zeldman.com/2008/09/15/a-modest-proposal/#comment-43818</link>
		<dc:creator>Daring Fireball Linked List: September 2008</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Jul 2009 01:03:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.zeldman.com/?p=406#comment-43818</guid>
		<description>&lt;!--%kramer-ref-pre%--&gt;[...] A Modest Proposal&#160;&#9733; [...]&lt;!--%kramer-ref-post%--&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!--%kramer-ref-pre%-->[...] A Modest Proposal&nbsp;&#9733; [...]<!--%kramer-ref-post%--></p>
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		<title>By: Bradley</title>
		<link>http://www.zeldman.com/2008/09/15/a-modest-proposal/#comment-39500</link>
		<dc:creator>Bradley</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Nov 2008 03:37:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.zeldman.com/?p=406#comment-39500</guid>
		<description>And whom, I wonder, would be enforce the law and levy the &quot;crushing fines?&quot; Ah yes, the government, of course. I&#039;m sure that there is no risk of manipulation there. Or what about if a major network decided that ALL of a particular candidate&#039;s ads were &quot;unverifiable?&quot; 

This proposal may be interesting for internet blog debate, but in terms of reality, it is simple-minded and wide open for manipulation and abuse. God help us if such a scheme were ever implemented.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And whom, I wonder, would be enforce the law and levy the &#8220;crushing fines?&#8221; Ah yes, the government, of course. I&#8217;m sure that there is no risk of manipulation there. Or what about if a major network decided that ALL of a particular candidate&#8217;s ads were &#8220;unverifiable?&#8221; </p>
<p>This proposal may be interesting for internet blog debate, but in terms of reality, it is simple-minded and wide open for manipulation and abuse. God help us if such a scheme were ever implemented.</p>
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		<title>By: Mary</title>
		<link>http://www.zeldman.com/2008/09/15/a-modest-proposal/#comment-39172</link>
		<dc:creator>Mary</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Oct 2008 17:31:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.zeldman.com/?p=406#comment-39172</guid>
		<description>Here, here!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Here, here!</p>
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		<title>By: Jeff W</title>
		<link>http://www.zeldman.com/2008/09/15/a-modest-proposal/#comment-39168</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeff W</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Oct 2008 22:42:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.zeldman.com/?p=406#comment-39168</guid>
		<description>IMO, our whole political system has become so professional and so focused on techniques for manipulating and crafting the images of politicians for the purpose of getting them elected (or keeping the opponent from it) that figuring out who they are and what they might actually do in office is almost impossible.  

When they say different things and make different promises depending upon which audience they are facing at them moment, and when every word, phrasing, etc is so carefully planned for the image it will convey to X voter, honesty gets completely lost in the dust.  

If their whole image is a lie, how would you decide when to fine them?  
(It&#039;d take a whole team of lawyers to prove it enough to make it stick.  And I imagine that the candidate&#039;s lawyers could keep any judgement delayed at least until an election is over, good luck getting any money from them.)

I like your idea, but I have no confidence that it could actually work.  IMO it&#039;d just make them find loopholes and more subtle ways to tell the same lies, so that they could get away with them without *quite* going over the threshold of provable-lie to trigger the punishment.  

Considering the skill that those in the political system have for finding loopholes in everything else, don&#039;t you think they&#039;d find them in this too?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>IMO, our whole political system has become so professional and so focused on techniques for manipulating and crafting the images of politicians for the purpose of getting them elected (or keeping the opponent from it) that figuring out who they are and what they might actually do in office is almost impossible.  </p>
<p>When they say different things and make different promises depending upon which audience they are facing at them moment, and when every word, phrasing, etc is so carefully planned for the image it will convey to X voter, honesty gets completely lost in the dust.  </p>
<p>If their whole image is a lie, how would you decide when to fine them?<br />
(It&#8217;d take a whole team of lawyers to prove it enough to make it stick.  And I imagine that the candidate&#8217;s lawyers could keep any judgement delayed at least until an election is over, good luck getting any money from them.)</p>
<p>I like your idea, but I have no confidence that it could actually work.  IMO it&#8217;d just make them find loopholes and more subtle ways to tell the same lies, so that they could get away with them without *quite* going over the threshold of provable-lie to trigger the punishment.  </p>
<p>Considering the skill that those in the political system have for finding loopholes in everything else, don&#8217;t you think they&#8217;d find them in this too?</p>
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		<title>By: The Bat</title>
		<link>http://www.zeldman.com/2008/09/15/a-modest-proposal/#comment-39150</link>
		<dc:creator>The Bat</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 04 Oct 2008 07:01:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.zeldman.com/?p=406#comment-39150</guid>
		<description>Frankly, after wading through the above, I fear more for the 1st Amendment than anything. Yes, campaign ads are speech. And the measure of veracity is not whether or not somebody finds them offensive.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Frankly, after wading through the above, I fear more for the 1st Amendment than anything. Yes, campaign ads are speech. And the measure of veracity is not whether or not somebody finds them offensive.</p>
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		<title>By: Ken Nickless</title>
		<link>http://www.zeldman.com/2008/09/15/a-modest-proposal/#comment-39115</link>
		<dc:creator>Ken Nickless</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Sep 2008 02:02:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.zeldman.com/?p=406#comment-39115</guid>
		<description>Maybe they could siphon off a small piece of the 700 billion dollars that it&#039;s going to take to fix a much bigger problem. Unfortunately there are just too many greedy buggers in this world today. Some of them even walk away with $490 million whilst the majority of the general public suffer, and will contnue to suffer for years to come.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Maybe they could siphon off a small piece of the 700 billion dollars that it&#8217;s going to take to fix a much bigger problem. Unfortunately there are just too many greedy buggers in this world today. Some of them even walk away with $490 million whilst the majority of the general public suffer, and will contnue to suffer for years to come.</p>
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		<title>By: Nicolas</title>
		<link>http://www.zeldman.com/2008/09/15/a-modest-proposal/#comment-39112</link>
		<dc:creator>Nicolas</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Sep 2008 15:40:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.zeldman.com/?p=406#comment-39112</guid>
		<description>Wow, I think this is a great idea. You should submit it to Google for &quot;project 10^100&quot; !</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wow, I think this is a great idea. You should submit it to Google for &#8220;project 10^100&#8243; !</p>
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		<title>By: grigori</title>
		<link>http://www.zeldman.com/2008/09/15/a-modest-proposal/#comment-39107</link>
		<dc:creator>grigori</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Sep 2008 07:40:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.zeldman.com/?p=406#comment-39107</guid>
		<description>Presidents not elected, they are chosen prior to the presidential race by the real owners of this country. Many worthwhile candidates don&#039;t even get sufficient exposure as they voices and campaigned quickly silenced.  If you think that current candidates are any different from one another, think again. Either one answers to the same think tanks and agendas that are unravelling at this very moment, hence they progress to the point where they are. Economical collapse, monetary values as notes of debt,- all part of the long term plan. Democracy as concept renders into joke which floats up to the surface government  fascism towards the population. 
Whichever way this boat goes, expect some bumpy ride ahead with FEMA, Marshal Law, Endless Costly Wars, Criminal Wall Street, Private Fed/IRS, Black Flag operation Terrorism, North American Union, Amero, - all the good stuff which just another step towards New World Order. Question is,- what are YOU going to do about.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Presidents not elected, they are chosen prior to the presidential race by the real owners of this country. Many worthwhile candidates don&#8217;t even get sufficient exposure as they voices and campaigned quickly silenced.  If you think that current candidates are any different from one another, think again. Either one answers to the same think tanks and agendas that are unravelling at this very moment, hence they progress to the point where they are. Economical collapse, monetary values as notes of debt,- all part of the long term plan. Democracy as concept renders into joke which floats up to the surface government  fascism towards the population.<br />
Whichever way this boat goes, expect some bumpy ride ahead with FEMA, Marshal Law, Endless Costly Wars, Criminal Wall Street, Private Fed/IRS, Black Flag operation Terrorism, North American Union, Amero, &#8211; all the good stuff which just another step towards New World Order. Question is,- what are YOU going to do about.</p>
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		<title>By: A Modest Proposal &#124; Go East</title>
		<link>http://www.zeldman.com/2008/09/15/a-modest-proposal/#comment-39075</link>
		<dc:creator>A Modest Proposal &#124; Go East</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Sep 2008 20:34:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.zeldman.com/?p=406#comment-39075</guid>
		<description>[...] Read Jeffrey Zeldman&#8217;s full proposal. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Read Jeffrey Zeldman&#8217;s full proposal. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: bs</title>
		<link>http://www.zeldman.com/2008/09/15/a-modest-proposal/#comment-39074</link>
		<dc:creator>bs</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Sep 2008 20:02:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.zeldman.com/?p=406#comment-39074</guid>
		<description>rock, that&#039;s exactly the problem. you&#039;re describing censorship. it&#039;s called &quot;prior restraint&quot;. why should it be ok for anyone... especially a political candidate?

right now they won&#039;t speak truth. you propose a rule guaranteeing that they can&#039;t speak their minds. why would that be any better? 

this is why speech rights should not be left to engineers. our system ain&#039;t perfect, but this is actually a feature, not a bug. the problem is that most people will vote for liars without checking for truth, not that politicians lie about each other. they lie about everything.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>rock, that&#8217;s exactly the problem. you&#8217;re describing censorship. it&#8217;s called &#8220;prior restraint&#8221;. why should it be ok for anyone&#8230; especially a political candidate?</p>
<p>right now they won&#8217;t speak truth. you propose a rule guaranteeing that they can&#8217;t speak their minds. why would that be any better? </p>
<p>this is why speech rights should not be left to engineers. our system ain&#8217;t perfect, but this is actually a feature, not a bug. the problem is that most people will vote for liars without checking for truth, not that politicians lie about each other. they lie about everything.</p>
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		<title>By: peter</title>
		<link>http://www.zeldman.com/2008/09/15/a-modest-proposal/#comment-39058</link>
		<dc:creator>peter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Sep 2008 14:36:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.zeldman.com/?p=406#comment-39058</guid>
		<description>this is exactly why we started &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.liecount.com&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;liecount.com&lt;/a&gt;. We always thought someone should be throwing flags on these lies...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>this is exactly why we started <a href="http://www.liecount.com" rel="nofollow">liecount.com</a>. We always thought someone should be throwing flags on these lies&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Luis Gross</title>
		<link>http://www.zeldman.com/2008/09/15/a-modest-proposal/#comment-39011</link>
		<dc:creator>Luis Gross</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Sep 2008 07:17:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.zeldman.com/?p=406#comment-39011</guid>
		<description>You already have enough essays for comments so I just have one thing to say,

Why can&#039;t everyone think like you? 

Since everyone doesn&#039;t think like you and I, or at least since the majority of Americans don&#039;t think like you and I, I&#039;ll be straightforward about it, McCain is going to win. 

I&#039;d hate to see it happen. 

But he will. 

Trump just endorsed him tonight on the Larry King show; obviously because he knows McCain is simply going to cut taxes on the rich and raise them on the middle and lower class.

Not that Trump has any influence on votes, but rather, &quot;look who&#039;s voting for McCain&quot;. 

Obama&#039;s doing the complete opposite. 

But dirty, filthy, dishonest ads, will surely brainwash non-critical thinking society --- as it already has.

We&#039;re going to lose.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You already have enough essays for comments so I just have one thing to say,</p>
<p>Why can&#8217;t everyone think like you? </p>
<p>Since everyone doesn&#8217;t think like you and I, or at least since the majority of Americans don&#8217;t think like you and I, I&#8217;ll be straightforward about it, McCain is going to win. </p>
<p>I&#8217;d hate to see it happen. </p>
<p>But he will. </p>
<p>Trump just endorsed him tonight on the Larry King show; obviously because he knows McCain is simply going to cut taxes on the rich and raise them on the middle and lower class.</p>
<p>Not that Trump has any influence on votes, but rather, &#8220;look who&#8217;s voting for McCain&#8221;. </p>
<p>Obama&#8217;s doing the complete opposite. </p>
<p>But dirty, filthy, dishonest ads, will surely brainwash non-critical thinking society &#8212; as it already has.</p>
<p>We&#8217;re going to lose.</p>
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		<title>By: cmichaelcooper</title>
		<link>http://www.zeldman.com/2008/09/15/a-modest-proposal/#comment-39010</link>
		<dc:creator>cmichaelcooper</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Sep 2008 04:41:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.zeldman.com/?p=406#comment-39010</guid>
		<description>In American politics it is more about electing a party than it is about an individual, because those individuals will behave as is expected by their party. For example, as a presidential candidate, or as president, McCain will NOT be any kind of maverick or reformer because the Republican party will not allow it. That is the price of getting their support and nomination.

It is because of this that I believe ALL political advertisements should be illegal and instead we should interrupt our normally scheduled crap tv with debates and actual discussions. It is pathetic that I can watch more hours of family guy in a single day than I can watch of our candidates debating the issues (if they will talk about the issues at all) for their entire campaign.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In American politics it is more about electing a party than it is about an individual, because those individuals will behave as is expected by their party. For example, as a presidential candidate, or as president, McCain will NOT be any kind of maverick or reformer because the Republican party will not allow it. That is the price of getting their support and nomination.</p>
<p>It is because of this that I believe ALL political advertisements should be illegal and instead we should interrupt our normally scheduled crap tv with debates and actual discussions. It is pathetic that I can watch more hours of family guy in a single day than I can watch of our candidates debating the issues (if they will talk about the issues at all) for their entire campaign.</p>
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		<title>By: Rock</title>
		<link>http://www.zeldman.com/2008/09/15/a-modest-proposal/#comment-39009</link>
		<dc:creator>Rock</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Sep 2008 01:10:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.zeldman.com/?p=406#comment-39009</guid>
		<description>I really don&#039;t think this rule would prohibit someone from peaking freely any more than Twitter&#039;s 140-character limit hurts free speech. It&#039;s just a constraint, not a limitation of message, and it&#039;s an easy one to enforce. Just like &quot;don&#039;t use the passive voice in an essay.&quot;

In this case, I&#039;d say he *could* criticize the Bush administration because he&#039;s not running against Bush. It&#039;s like they&#039;ve said for healthy communication, &quot;use &#039;I&#039; language.&quot; &quot;I will do this, I won&#039;t do that, I propose this, etc.&quot; It would then be up to McCain to do the same and one would hope a voter could make the candidate-comparisons on their own (rather than letting these &quot;I approve this message...&quot; BS do it for them).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I really don&#8217;t think this rule would prohibit someone from peaking freely any more than Twitter&#8217;s 140-character limit hurts free speech. It&#8217;s just a constraint, not a limitation of message, and it&#8217;s an easy one to enforce. Just like &#8220;don&#8217;t use the passive voice in an essay.&#8221;</p>
<p>In this case, I&#8217;d say he *could* criticize the Bush administration because he&#8217;s not running against Bush. It&#8217;s like they&#8217;ve said for healthy communication, &#8220;use &#8216;I&#8217; language.&#8221; &#8220;I will do this, I won&#8217;t do that, I propose this, etc.&#8221; It would then be up to McCain to do the same and one would hope a voter could make the candidate-comparisons on their own (rather than letting these &#8220;I approve this message&#8230;&#8221; BS do it for them).</p>
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		<title>By: bs</title>
		<link>http://www.zeldman.com/2008/09/15/a-modest-proposal/#comment-39008</link>
		<dc:creator>bs</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Sep 2008 23:11:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.zeldman.com/?p=406#comment-39008</guid>
		<description>also, would your rule imply that obama couldn&#039;t criticize the bush administration?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>also, would your rule imply that obama couldn&#8217;t criticize the bush administration?</p>
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