Comments on: Say hello to web standards http://www.zeldman.com/2007/09/27/something-new-at-apple-store/ Web design news and insights since 1995 Wed, 17 Mar 2010 03:24:06 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2 hourly 1 By: MetaGer, Suche nach: well this is embarrassing firefox http://www.zeldman.com/2007/09/27/something-new-at-apple-store/#comment-51086 MetaGer, Suche nach: well this is embarrassing firefox Sat, 19 Dec 2009 17:10:00 +0000 http://www.zeldman.com/2007/09/27/something-new-at-apple-store/#comment-51086 <!--%kramer-ref-pre%-->[...] [...]<!--%kramer-ref-post%--> [...] [...]

]]> By: Daring Fireball Linked List: September 2007 http://www.zeldman.com/2007/09/27/something-new-at-apple-store/#comment-42341 Daring Fireball Linked List: September 2007 Fri, 08 May 2009 02:20:55 +0000 http://www.zeldman.com/2007/09/27/something-new-at-apple-store/#comment-42341 <!--%kramer-ref-pre%-->[...] Say Hello to Web Standards ★ [...]<!--%kramer-ref-post%--> [...] Say Hello to Web Standards ★ [...]

]]> By: Aaron Mentele, Charisma 18 » The unicorn’s horn looks crooked http://www.zeldman.com/2007/09/27/something-new-at-apple-store/#comment-40686 Aaron Mentele, Charisma 18 » The unicorn’s horn looks crooked Tue, 20 Jan 2009 22:58:31 +0000 http://www.zeldman.com/2007/09/27/something-new-at-apple-store/#comment-40686 [...] The comments remind me of those coming from trolls on Zeldman’s post regarding the Apple store redesign. [...] [...] The comments remind me of those coming from trolls on Zeldman’s post regarding the Apple store redesign. [...]

]]> By: New Apple Online Store www.apple.com/au/ - Mac - Apple http://www.zeldman.com/2007/09/27/something-new-at-apple-store/#comment-37758 New Apple Online Store www.apple.com/au/ - Mac - Apple Thu, 12 Jun 2008 02:32:24 +0000 http://www.zeldman.com/2007/09/27/something-new-at-apple-store/#comment-37758 <!--%kramer-ref-pre%-->[...] Well it appears that the freshened up look is more than just skin (pixel?) deep.www.zeldman.com/2007/09/...w-at-apple-store [...]<!--%kramer-ref-post%--> [...] Well it appears that the freshened up look is more than just skin (pixel?) deep.www.zeldman.com/2007/09/…w-at-apple-store [...]

]]> By: MacUser: September 2007 Archives http://www.zeldman.com/2007/09/27/something-new-at-apple-store/#comment-37357 MacUser: September 2007 Archives Sat, 24 May 2008 10:37:33 +0000 http://www.zeldman.com/2007/09/27/something-new-at-apple-store/#comment-37357 <!--%kramer-ref-pre%-->[...] Apple’s online store got a very nice redesign recently. We’re a fan of its clean looks and the use of blue (color my eyes, so it must be good). While it’s beautiful to look at, the code behind it is also gorgeous. [...]<!--%kramer-ref-post%--> [...] Apple’s online store got a very nice redesign recently. We’re a fan of its clean looks and the use of blue (color my eyes, so it must be good). While it’s beautiful to look at, the code behind it is also gorgeous. [...]

]]> By: Jeffrey Zeldman http://www.zeldman.com/2007/09/27/something-new-at-apple-store/#comment-21591 Jeffrey Zeldman Fri, 05 Oct 2007 13:34:04 +0000 http://www.zeldman.com/2007/09/27/something-new-at-apple-store/#comment-21591 Enough. Enough.

]]> By: Don Ulrich http://www.zeldman.com/2007/09/27/something-new-at-apple-store/#comment-21547 Don Ulrich Thu, 04 Oct 2007 15:13:26 +0000 http://www.zeldman.com/2007/09/27/something-new-at-apple-store/#comment-21547 WOW Jeffrey you have hot to be kidding.... Who did this piece of embarrassing work? The visual design is OK but there is absolutely NO development value what so ever. Come on man are just looking for a reaction? You know BETTER. Not only a mis-matched DTD but incorrectly written as well? LOL LOL LOL A class for body? A bit redundant isn't it. Then there are script tags nested inside script tags? LOL LOL LOL LOL Worse yet you all these sheeple agreeing with you, even making excuses for it. Oh the nested divs now i'm rolling on the floor laughing! This document has more 'class' than the Donald! Do they know at Apple that there are more than just id and class selectors? The design blows up if text size increases. The non semantic use of definition lists are classic. This was not NOT done by a web developer there is HUGE difference between development and design. I just can't believe you are serious. For those of you who defended this tripe you set web development back 10 years. This design was the result of attempting to reach a sum and not a product. Which is impossible. As reference just look up the word Gestalt. "a structure, configuration, or pattern of physical, biological, or psychological phenomena so integrated as to constitute a functional unit with properties not derivable by summation of its parts" Yup it has function, just not organizational product. As someone who develops for the web i'm appalled agas and just plain F$#@ing amazed that this passes as acceptable. Web designers need to grow up! WOW Jeffrey you have hot to be kidding….
Who did this piece of embarrassing work?
The visual design is OK but there is absolutely NO development value what so ever.
Come on man are just looking for a reaction? You know BETTER.
Not only a mis-matched DTD but incorrectly written as well?
LOL LOL LOL
A class for body? A bit redundant isn’t it.
Then there are script tags nested inside script tags?
LOL LOL LOL LOL
Worse yet you all these sheeple agreeing with you, even making excuses for it.
Oh the nested divs now i’m rolling on the floor laughing!
This document has more ‘class’ than the Donald!
Do they know at Apple that there are more than just id and class selectors?
The design blows up if text size increases.
The non semantic use of definition lists are classic.

This was not NOT done by a web developer there is HUGE difference between
development and design. I just can’t believe you are serious. For those of you who defended this tripe you set web development back 10 years.

This design was the result of attempting to reach a sum and not a product.
Which is impossible. As reference just look up the word Gestalt.

“a structure, configuration, or pattern of physical, biological, or psychological phenomena so integrated as to constitute a functional unit with properties not derivable by summation of its parts”

Yup it has function, just not organizational product.

As someone who develops for the web i’m appalled agas and just plain F$#@ing
amazed that this passes as acceptable. Web designers need to grow up!

]]> By: Lydia Mann http://www.zeldman.com/2007/09/27/something-new-at-apple-store/#comment-21497 Lydia Mann Wed, 03 Oct 2007 17:36:50 +0000 http://www.zeldman.com/2007/09/27/something-new-at-apple-store/#comment-21497 @ the cranks and kvetches: Spirit of the law, not letter of the law, is what differentiates reality from philosophical twaddle and great, real-life design from thumb-twiddling twaddle. @ the cranks and kvetches:
Spirit of the law, not letter of the law, is what differentiates reality from philosophical twaddle and great, real-life design from thumb-twiddling twaddle.

]]> By: Shawn http://www.zeldman.com/2007/09/27/something-new-at-apple-store/#comment-21464 Shawn Wed, 03 Oct 2007 03:21:44 +0000 http://www.zeldman.com/2007/09/27/something-new-at-apple-store/#comment-21464 I'm just waiting for Apple's stock to go down so I can buy it. Including the online store, they seem to do no wrong. Can they release some negative press once in a while? I’m just waiting for Apple’s stock to go down so I can buy it. Including the online store, they seem to do no wrong. Can they release some negative press once in a while?

]]> By: Simon Cox http://www.zeldman.com/2007/09/27/something-new-at-apple-store/#comment-21441 Simon Cox Tue, 02 Oct 2007 11:12:46 +0000 http://www.zeldman.com/2007/09/27/something-new-at-apple-store/#comment-21441 I have a huge amount of sympathy for Apple - looks like they really have tried to get the standards right but have been side swiped by their CMS. I have exactly the same problem on the global site I run. All the designs are built using valid mark up, the functional specifications I spend hours writing for the development teams all declare that valid mark up must be used, my team spend ages perfecting the templates and when we try to shoehorn the content into the CMS it just falls to bits - every time new limitations are found in the CMS! We get judged on the site using an enterprise version of Silktide's Sitescore, so code quality is important to me - and its a standard that we can work to but is hard to achieve in reality. We spend a lot of time dreaming up creative solutions to get around our CMS's limitations (can't change the CMS as it is our strategic platform for eth next few years...). The Apple team have done a great job - don't knock them. I have a huge amount of sympathy for Apple – looks like they really have tried to get the standards right but have been side swiped by their CMS. I have exactly the same problem on the global site I run. All the designs are built using valid mark up, the functional specifications I spend hours writing for the development teams all declare that valid mark up must be used, my team spend ages perfecting the templates and when we try to shoehorn the content into the CMS it just falls to bits – every time new limitations are found in the CMS! We get judged on the site using an enterprise version of Silktide’s Sitescore, so code quality is important to me – and its a standard that we can work to but is hard to achieve in reality. We spend a lot of time dreaming up creative solutions to get around our CMS’s limitations (can’t change the CMS as it is our strategic platform for eth next few years…).

The Apple team have done a great job – don’t knock them.

]]> By: Tanner Christensen http://www.zeldman.com/2007/09/27/something-new-at-apple-store/#comment-21425 Tanner Christensen Mon, 01 Oct 2007 18:21:18 +0000 http://www.zeldman.com/2007/09/27/something-new-at-apple-store/#comment-21425 lonut: but it is a step up from where they were, don't you agree? The really funny thing about the validation errors is that most of them look like thye are easy to fix - just a few characters deleted, adding a few "alt" tags here and there, and viola, validation. lonut: but it is a step up from where they were, don’t you agree?

The really funny thing about the validation errors is that most of them look like thye are easy to fix – just a few characters deleted, adding a few “alt” tags here and there, and viola, validation.

]]> By: Joe http://www.zeldman.com/2007/09/27/something-new-at-apple-store/#comment-21413 Joe Mon, 01 Oct 2007 14:10:37 +0000 http://www.zeldman.com/2007/09/27/something-new-at-apple-store/#comment-21413 Sorry for double post, but I should have included this article: <a href="http://www2.jeffcroft.com/blog/2007/sep/30/tools-do-not-designer-make/" title="Tools do not a designer make" rel="nofollow">Tools Do Not a Designer Make, by Jeff Croft</a> You can bitch about standards all day but when it boils down to it, they won't make you a better web developer than the guy who finished the project under budget and beyond client expectations. This isn't to say standards aren't important. They are. But if that's your ONLY argument against the Apple Store right now, you need to go troll IRC or some lame forums, and shut up here. Sorry for double post, but I should have included this article:

Tools Do Not a Designer Make, by Jeff Croft

You can bitch about standards all day but when it boils down to it, they won’t make you a better web developer than the guy who finished the project under budget and beyond client expectations.

This isn’t to say standards aren’t important. They are. But if that’s your ONLY argument against the Apple Store right now, you need to go troll IRC or some lame forums, and shut up here.

]]> By: Joe http://www.zeldman.com/2007/09/27/something-new-at-apple-store/#comment-21412 Joe Mon, 01 Oct 2007 14:07:07 +0000 http://www.zeldman.com/2007/09/27/something-new-at-apple-store/#comment-21412 I wish everyone who is bitching about validation would READ THE COMMENTS that have already been posted about this. You can't always CONTROL validation especially with large sites that, no doubt, use content management tools. Validation is not the END ALL of web development. The web site still meets customer expectations, provides quality experience, and succeeds in completing Apple's goals. The web site has added value all across the board. oh boo hoo validation. get off your damn high horses and code in the real world. I wish everyone who is bitching about validation would READ THE COMMENTS that have already been posted about this. You can’t always CONTROL validation especially with large sites that, no doubt, use content management tools.

Validation is not the END ALL of web development. The web site still meets customer expectations, provides quality experience, and succeeds in completing Apple’s goals. The web site has added value all across the board.

oh boo hoo validation. get off your damn high horses and code in the real world.

]]> By: Pat Fortino http://www.zeldman.com/2007/09/27/something-new-at-apple-store/#comment-21355 Pat Fortino Sun, 30 Sep 2007 23:37:21 +0000 http://www.zeldman.com/2007/09/27/something-new-at-apple-store/#comment-21355 Hi Jim, I don't see anything new, innovative, thrilling or "sleek" in the Apple store design. In fact, it looks suspiciously a LOT like Adobe.com, which is also a nice site. Like many online stores and portal sites, there is way too much going on; there is NOTHING easy about navigation this site. If they made an effort to use css to build the site, good for them. But I just can't jump up and down and say "Oh Boy, Apple reinvented the web site!" Hi Jim,

I don’t see anything new, innovative, thrilling or “sleek” in the Apple store design. In fact, it looks suspiciously a LOT like Adobe.com, which is also a nice site. Like many online stores and portal sites, there is way too much going on; there is NOTHING easy about navigation this site. If they made an effort to use css to build the site, good for them. But I just can’t jump up and down and say “Oh Boy, Apple reinvented the web site!”

]]> By: Ionut http://www.zeldman.com/2007/09/27/something-new-at-apple-store/#comment-21345 Ionut Sun, 30 Sep 2007 16:50:41 +0000 http://www.zeldman.com/2007/09/27/something-new-at-apple-store/#comment-21345 It's still not enough... it doesn't <a href="http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fstore.apple.com%2F1-800-MY-APPLE%2FWebObjects%2FAppleStore&charset=%28detect+automatically%29&doctype=Inline&group=0" rel="nofollow">validate</a> It’s still not enough… it doesn’t validate

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